Are Blacks Oppressed In the US? A short course.

This thread is a relaunch of a project that started here. Someone hadmentioned that blacks are oppressed; someone else was highly skeptical of that idea. That person went on to repeatedly demand that someone explain the idea to him. I said it would take a lot of explaining, for him, and he wouldn't pay attention. So I started the process I plan to repeat here.

After a while, he stopped paying attention.But I still think this could be a good exercise, and I want to give it another go. Here's how I figure we do it:

1. I put up a link to something to read, or to a video, or some other source.
2. All participants report when they've read it.
3. I put up a conclusion, based on the information in the source.
4. We discuss the conclusion.
5. Repeat until we've reached the final conclusion, answering the title question.

To go forward, I want three volunteers to make an honest effort to work through this process with me. Ideally, I'd like people who presently think the answer to the title question is 'no.' But the only requirement is that you agree to make an honest effort, to read the sources in their entirety and report when you've done so, to say if you agree or disagree with my conclusions from each source, and to participate in civil discussion when there is disagreement.

So, are there three volunteers?

 

C'mon, folks! Are there three people willing to work with me here? I know, you might half to expose yourself to new knowledge that you'd otherwise choose to avoid, but be brave! Be fearless! Seize the ripe fruit of the tree of knowledge, that now hangs before you, and take a big juicy bite!

You may never be the same, but change is good!

 

Racists don't dare touch this topic with a 20ft pole. Because it will reveal the truth about the White people as a murderous cult of heathens

Now you'll get all the "that's not me", "I had nothing to do with that", "I have Black friends", "My mama is part Cherokee Indian", but all that is just fluff deflection spin to keep the light of truth off of them and the wicked racist blueprint that was handed down to them by their racist ancestors, that they proudly put into practice daily. clear to 2013.

I call it "Emotionally Detached White Guilt".. It's when a white person attempts to clear their conscience from the atrocities put down by their very Grandfathers and Grandmothers and not own up to it. Being just that close generationally. To the point of outright denying the truth and facts of history. Some of them still have those racist ancestors and family members still alive in their living rooms calling Black people "N'z and feral beasts"..I've even seen it on this site when the topic gets hot in the kitchen. (see the Zimmerman forum, the racist hub of this site)

Another term for this is called Living a LIe.

Carry on.

 

I think you're right about some things, and wrong about some things.

But I won't get into it, because I've decided to run through my little course even if no one is participating, and I want this thread to be pretty purely devoted to that. Will start with next message.

 

Read as much as you can of the material here: http://www.tightrope.cc/jokes3.htm

Get a good feeling for it's quality and quantity.

Note: NSFW, and may be blocked on many corporate/institutional networks. Features N-word prominently.

Will post my comments, and Conclusion #1, this evening.

 

Perhaps a explanation why Poor White people and Poor Asians are less criminal / more succesfull then Poor black people.

All about culture and morals. Racism? hardly. Same Pattern in European nations with their miniorities.

 

This is why nobody but other white trashionalists take white trashionalists seriously.

I doubt that you could find a credible source that links crime with race over poverty, but, I'll ask anyway. Do you have a credible source for this assertion? Preferably someone who isn't a white trashionalist?

Here, I'll prereciprocate:

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/badcomm.htm

POVERTY, NOT RACE, TIED TO HIGH CRIME RATES IN URBAN COMMUNITIES

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Violent crime rates have more to do with poverty levels in a neighborhood than with the race of local residents, new research has found.

A study of Columbus neighborhoods found that violent crime rates in extremely disadvantaged white neighborhoods were very similar to rates in comparable Black neighborhoods.

The violent crime rate in highly disadvantaged Black areas was 22 per 1,000 residents, not much different from the 20 per 1,000 rate in similar white communities.

There are still many people who mistakenly believe there is something about Black neighborhoods that make them more violent and prone to crime, said Lauren Krivo, co-author of the study and associate professor of sociology at Ohio State University.

Our research shows that neighborhoods with the most crime tend to be those with the highest rates of poverty and other types of disadvantage -- regardless of whether they are predominantly Black or white.

In this study, overall rates of violence were nearly three times as high in Black neighborhoods as in white neighborhoods. But thats because Black neighborhoods are much more likely than white ones to be highly disadvantaged, she said.


Krivo conducted the study with Ruth Peterson, a professor of sociology at Ohio State. Their study was published in the current issue of the journal Social Forces.
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https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=82676

Crime and Race - Conceptions and Misconceptions

he best available evidence on the combined topics of race and crime is presented, and the causes and extent of their relationship, if any, is examined to dispel misconceived notions about them.
Abstract: It is popular among whites to attribute to blacks a propensity to commit crimes of particular types because of somatic, physiological, or psychological traits peculiar to or more commonly found in that race. That blacks are convicted of 'street' crimes in greater proportion to their numbers in the general population than whites is established by the statistics. Only from arrests are the races of offenders known, but arrests in any year represent only about 30 percent of the index crimes reported. It cannot be known with certainty, then, the actual amount of crime committed by any particular racial or ethnic group in American society. Based on existing empirical evidence, no genetic theory of crime is given credence by scholars involved with either crime or genetics. Criminality is generally viewed as learned behavior derived from interaction with a particular environment of circumstances, persons, and perceptions. The majority of blacks enter an environment of deprivation surrounded by a white-dominated culture in which worth is measured by material possessions and social status gained through education, developed vocational skills, and employment opportunities that permit advance up the economic and social ladder. Racial discrimination and the absence of educational and vocational resources that will enable blacks to compete with whites in the dominant socioeconomic arena has left blacks to establish their worth and status in a deviant domain where property crime, drug trafficking, and prostitution yield relatively impressive material rewards and status in the underworld. This pattern will only change as blacks are not only prepared to establish their worth in the legitimate world of socioeconomic transactions, but are given maximum opportunity to use this preparation in a nondiscriminatory environment. Tabular data and 144 references are provided.

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http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/study-whites-more-likely-to-abuse-drugs-than-blacks/

Study: Whites More Likely to Abuse Drugs Than Blacks
By Maia Szalavitz


Addiction
Study: Whites More Likely to Abuse Drugs Than Blacks
By Maia Szalavitz @maiaszNov. 07, 2011Add a Comment

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Black youth are arrested for drug crimes at a rate ten times higher than that of whites. But new research shows that young African Americans are actually less likely to use drugs and less likely to develop substance use disorders, compared to whites, Native Americans, Hispanics and people of mixed race.

“Our goal is to alert people to the burden of drug problems and also to how some of our concern about who has these problems may not be true,” says Dr. Dan Blazer, senior author of the study and a professor of psychiatry at Duke University. “There’s a perception among many individuals that African Americans as a group — regardless of socioeconomic status — tend to abuse or use drugs at higher rate and this [does not support] that.”

Using data from 72,561 youth interviewed for the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, researchers found that 37% of those aged between 12 and 17 had used alcohol or other drugs at least once in the past year. Nearly 8% met criteria for a substance use disorder — either the less severe “substance abuse” diagnosis or the more problematic “substance dependence,” which is more commonly known as addiction.

The study, which was published Monday in the Archives of General Psychiatry, controlled for variables like socioeconomic status because rates of severe drug problems tend to be greater amongst the poor. Despite this, Native American youth fared worst, with 15% having a substance use disorder, compared to 9.2% for people of mixed racial heritage, 9.0% for whites, 7.7% for Hispanics, 5% for African Americans and 3.5% for Asians and Pacific Islanders.

 

By the time I've gone through the whole course, I believe I will have developed a good part of the answer to your question.

I'm taking this one step at a time here; I invite you to work with me.

 

The existence of lots and lots of [n-gg-r] jokes, the fact that they are carefully collected and shared, and are presented on a great many pages besides that one, indicates people attach cultural importance to them. They preserve them, defend them, and resent suggestions that there is anything wrong with them. All that is worth thinking about.

But I'm going to draw just one simple conclusion from the [n-gg-r] joke page. And I'm basing this conclusion not on the page, really. The page is just a touchstone, to remind us all about [n-gg-r] jokes. I mean, this isn't exactly the first time anyone reading here ever heard of them, I trust. I'm basing the conclusion on the fact that I first heard a [n-gg-r] joke in grade school. I think most Americans have had similar experience, so I don't think this conclusion can possibly be controversial:

Conclusion #1. There is a very negative 'image' of black people that is well known to most people in the USA, from their childhood. The name for this image is [n-gg-r] .

 

Read the essay excerpts quoted below. The essays were written by American college students, and the full texts can be found here: http://www2.oakland.edu/oujournal/files/18_nword.pdf

After you have read the essay excepts, view the video linked-to below them.

The following video is from the movie "The President's Analyst." It is of course fiction, but I think it a useful dramatic illustration nontheless.


[video=youtube;gRxu0ooBrPE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gRxu0ooBrPE[/video]


Some discussion, and my Conclusion #2, will be posted this evening.

 

Why don't you compare violent crime rates? Compare Appalachia to any majority black city. I can't think of any majority white city that has a higher violent crime rate than inner city Chicago.

 

I invite you to follow the course, henrick.

 

Discussion:

The testimony in the essays dealt with occurrences earlier in the life of the writers; the video likewise hearkened back to a childhood experience of the narrator. In all these cases the definition of [n-gg-r] was known or became known, with dramatic and memorable effect.

Conclusion 2.:

2. As and after people learn what [n-gg-r] means, it has impact. Experiences with [n-gg-r] stick with people. The effects are powerful and long-lasting.

 

I think blacks feel oppressed/depressed regardless of where they live. Its seems to be a part of their nature, and frankly a part of their agenda.

 

This time I'm going to point you at a book excerpt that appeared in the Washington Post a while back, that places the word [n-gg-r] in some historical context. It's a little longer, but not tremendous. About 6 pages. You'll find it here: http://tinyurl.com/n79eh

(The link goes to the Washington Post; had to make a tinyurl out of it because the word [n-gg-r] is in the link, and PF won't record it accurately.)

Discussion and conclusion this evening.

 

The derogatory term in question has very little to do with the original question, as it no longer fits the societal norm or addresses the question of oppression.

Blacks are indeed oppressed in the United States, yet not by someone else. There is a level of racial tension and distrust going back and forth. But, it would seem much of this is self imposed due to circumstance continuing to create Poverty, crime, and drug use within the larger black population. Until this population figures out a way to become trusted by the larger society, oppression will continue.

 

Stick with me, Tecoyah. I think I've shown that [n-gg-r] has been and remains a potent symbol in the culture. The fact that it is so heavily censored in 'respectable' conversation and venues attests to it's power. The link to oppression is starting to be developed, and will be explored further in the final two readings.

 

Discussion:

Reading assignment 3 presents historical anecdote that shows a consistent pattern: the use of the word symbol [n-gg-r] to identify blacks negatively, to express utter disrespect or hatred of them, coupled with the abuse, persecution, and indeed, oppression of blacks. The abusive things said to blacks should be noted as much as the physical harm done to them, because the abuse shows the very negative view, concept, or image the abusers held of black people.

The last example, a case of a black man forced at gunpoint to profess humiliating submission to a white man, seems echoed almost in current events: the white man 'boasted' of killing two black men in 'self defense.' His job? Night watchman.

Conclusion #3:

People who oppress blacks express a very negative image of blacks, and in many cases use the word [n-gg-r], the symbol of that image.

 

Lol... the only thing you'll find is a correlation between high poverty, highly densely populated areas, and crime.

One thing that completely blows the white trashionalists' theory about the link between violent crime and ethnicity is that violent crime is SIGNIFICANTLY down even as the percentage of minorities has significantly increased.

 

Third Term, I found your pictures very enjoyable. It's great to see happy people enjoying good times outdoors with their friends and family.

Of course, how one views the pictures will depend on whether one has a strong pre-existing set of beliefs about black people, and what such beliefs are.

 

This one is crucial. It provides the theoretical framework that links ideas about racial identity, and behavior.

It's an essay I wrote myself some years ago. You'll find it on Blogger, here: http://changedthingshave.blogspot.com/2012/04/normal-0-essay-on-identity-i-yam-what.html

As usual, some discussion and a conclusion this evening.

 

There are plenty of high density population areas around the world that don't have the crime rates of cities like Chicago and Detroit. Places like Prince Georges Co. Maryland outside of Wash. DC. Is mostly black middle class yet they still have a higher crime rate than neighboring white Counties with similar incomes. If crime is purely related poverty then why is that country more violent? Because the ghetto culture has made it's way to the black middle class. Your hero Trayvon is a prime example of this.

white trashionalists'

typical racist insults....

One thing that completely blows the white trashionalists' theory about the link between violent crime and ethnicity is that violent crime is SIGNIFICANTLY down even as the percentage of minorities has significantly increased.
Overall crime may be down, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still disproportionately higher among the young black population. Which doesn't make sense considering their small population size.

 

I think my experience (white woman FWIW) is that people have learned not to say "the N-Word" but very much think it. We have some city schools (majority black) that lost accreditation recently. By MO state law, those students have the right to transfer to a neighboring district (with the caveat that it shouldn't result in huge class sizes. So what the county (read White) parents have been doing is putting huge pressure on the school boards to lower class size targets to the point where there just isn't enough room for all those black kids. They are pretty out there with the rhetoric and fairly open about it -- calling the kids garbage, saying they don't want "those problems" here, pretty much calling them gangbangers and drug dealers and the like. What's weird is that they don't use "that word", but it's obvious they want to. And of course it's "not race" and they deny their racism while saying very racist things. They just don't say "n-ger" so it's all cool, right. If you don't actually use the slurs when talking about blacks, you aren't racist.

It's one of many things in my town that makes me think that anti-racism is mostly a put-on, a show for other white people. Since racism isn't socially acceptable anymore, people pretend not to be racist. But at the same time, if too many black people frequent a shopping area, whites stop going there (eventually the mall closes). If too many blacks move into a neighborhood or attend a school, whites stop living in those neighborhoods and sending their kids to those schools. I remember my days of high school, you could have literally painted a line on the cafeteria floor and had whites on one side and blacks on the other, and it was the same in most of the classrooms -- blacks sat in the 2 rows by the window, white boys sat in the back, white girls sat in the front. I don't even recall any real, deep interracial friendships, whites and blacks went to different schools in the same classrooms and the same building under the same teachers.

 

Antisocial behaviour is a reflection , they are treating society same way they are treated by it .
You can observe the same phenomenon among nomadic / camp dwelling Gypsies in Europe .