Defending your homeland vs. your ideals

Assume that some outside force were to invade, with the express intent of spreading an ideal that you support. Perhaps it's the EU trying to force stronger measures towards social equality. Perhaps it's some currently non-existent power trying to further individual freedom across the board.

Whatever it is, for the sake of discussion, assume that there is a foreign power invading with the intent of spreading an ideal close to your heart, and it has the power to make conquering your country a real possibility. Would you fight for the invading power spreading your own ideals, or would you fight for you homeland that doesn't follow your ideals?

This is open to citizens of any country.

 

Were I a russian during the revolution, I'd fight on the side of invading brits or anyone actually. Anything to stave of the red hydra, and re-establish the monarchy (a constitutional one, being a symbolic head of a democracy though mind you).

So I'll go with the ideals rather than my country.

 

I would defend my family, my property, and myself in that order. Any aggressive action will depend on who I had to defend the above against. Not much on being a part of a collective.

 

I love it when keyboard warriors come out to play.

When and if those bombs rain down on your head, you'll be hitting the air raid shelters (if there actually are any) like everyone else.

 

I live in the middle of nowhere and no air raid shelters that I know of exist in the cities either.
I believe you misinterpreted my post. I would not pick a side unless the defense of my family, property, or self was left no other option. In my opinion aggression is only acceptable when someone uses it against me first.

 

Excepting situations where there is a split loyalty (as in the Russian example, with a loyalty to the country and to the deposed state), I'd defend my country.

 

Ideals. That's what really makes a country anyway. I see nothing magical about being born in a certain place and my desire to fight for a country is not based in any way whatsoever on the fact I happened to have been born there.

 

I'm curious, did you factor family or friends into your decision?

 

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

So an invading force, trying to force what we might call 'ideological imperialism' (<--though I think that is a real term), is trying to force your country, which is far from your ideological ideals, towards it's ideological ideals, which are very close to yours. You mean to say that you would fight for the invading force, despite the locale and allegiances of your friends and family?

I most often make this comparison in relative extremes. Guessing at what destruction and loss may come to my home and community I would, if an adult in the South in the 1860s, likely side with my home over my ideological ideal. Much the same, aware of horrors that may come to my home and community I would likely, as a Prussian, fight for the Germans against the Soviets (though I find that a worse comparison, given that I find both ideals detestable).

 

It would depend on many factors. If the invaders were trying to stop the US from doing something bad, or were invading as retaliation for something the US did that was illegal, I would probably stand aside and let them have at it, as long as they were not attacking civilians. If they were just invading to force America to live by their ideals, I would fight them.

 

Without specifics I cannot say whether I would actually fight for any side. It would depend on how far my homeland was from my ideals and how close the invading country's ideals are to mine. I think in most cases I would likely not fight for any side. Few countries are worth dying for. Locale has no bearing on anything to me. My locale is simply wherever I happen to be at the moment. It's not permanent. My immediate family would be in line with me, so that is a rhetorical question in my case. I can't say I care what my friends think about it. I don't live my life that way.

You are also assuming you cannot just leave. I travel a lot and there are lots of very nice places to live. Many I like more than America, in fact. So in real life the option exists to not fight for anyone and simply move! That's what millions in Syria are doing. If I live in Soviet Russia and the Nazi's invade I'm either just sitting around waiting for a winner or leaving (assuming that is an option for me).

 

I think his question is what if their ideals are superior in your eyes to America's? Then it may benefit you to not fight them.

 

that got me thinking.. It's not the country per se that you owe your alligiance to, but the people. The state doesn't necessarily represent the people, and by fighting for your ideals you are fighting for the people. atleast in my case.

 

Well you're a Swede who dissents from your government. Would you support an invading force that was trying to install a new government closer to your ideals?

 

Any invaders goal would be suspect. I would fight them to protect myself, my family and my neighbors.

No ideal is an excuse to invade.

 

That would depend on how far off the current government is from my ideal one. I wouldn't want to see a toppling of our current democracy for example. Were we a communist dictatorship, I'd think that the outside intervention, and my suuport of it, would serve the people in removing a bad government.

 

Hmmm. Are you assuming a 'civilized war' or would you even be okay with that knowing that the invasion could destroy your homeland?

 

I recently turned 83 so I don't think I'd do much fighting
But remember The country's ideals are continually changing
With the exception of racial issues I was 25 years old Before I met a Conservative that worked for a living
And very few republicans that worked for Living
So if I could I would fight for my country

 

The only exception I can think for that is the invasion by Vietnam to remove Pol Pot

 

At 83, I'm glad that you're participating on the forum.

 

Well, revolutions and overthrows just replace one authority with another. I’m an anarchist so I wouldn’t feel all that compelled to take a side in a conflict between two competing governments. I would however do what I could to protect the people I care about. And I would consider taking up arms against any side that targeted non-combatants.

 

It would be kind of pointless to join a fight for my people if my people are destroyed in the process isn't?

 

Not fighting for any country that's for sure

 

I am a liberal and a Democrat. After 9/11 I supported President Bush when he called for intervention in Afghanistan. If we had Rand Paul as President and a Republican Congress that repealed Social Security, the Affordable Care Act, and Medicare I would be mad as hell and I would protest. I would even engage in civil disobedience. However if anybody tried invade the country including some left wing social democratic led state I would drop my picket sign and pick the gun to defend this country. No matter how imperfect it is and regardless of how wrong headed I think Conservative Republicans are this is still my country. A foreigner who messes with us is going to catch hell from me.