Part 11 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Jan 23, 2014.

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  1. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    7 times asking. LOL You have plenty of time to write responses like the one above but not answer three simple questions. You are still in part 5 because you never actually answer anything. Ive asked you nicely 7 times now to answer, if you don't want to answer say I don't want to answer otherwise stop harassing me or I will report it as trolling. You are wasting my time and yours.
     
  2. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well, he's not saying Christians are directly responsible for the computer but in an indirect sense...yes! and no, trust me WR won't say the CEO of Microsoft is some kind of god.
     
  3. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    And he is still doing it today, claiming we refuse to answer his tough questions. I know how you feel WR when dealing with this guy, but you know you're exactly right in your entire response to him you made above.

    He acts as though he is the only one who has posed questions on these threads. Or that his questions deserve priority above everyone else to be answered first.

    You have to be patient and wait in line like everyone else son! (or is it girl?)
     
  4. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    If you really want an answer for that question I suggest you write to the Vatican or something. Or perhaps if you can get an email address from them, send them an email and ask them.

    Why are you asking us? We are not running the Vatican.
     
  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Hated women?... Sorry but there is no where in Scripture where the authors of the OT expressed their hatred for women. Just unsubstantiated opinions spewing from you.

    So we can put your statement into the invalid box.
     
  6. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hahahahahahahhahahahah! This was your best one yet! Did you really just ask me why I was asking you when you started a thread called "Post your tough questions regarding Christianity"? This is what you call "answering" a question. I ask and you tell me to call the Vatican, then you say you answered. Thanks for showing the readers my points have all been exactly as I have said. The record shows you have no idea why Catholics do not let women vote for the pope. Gee, even more intriguing is the fact that you never thought of that or worse you did but never cared to solicit and answer. Hmmm I guess women aren't equal in Christianity.
     
  7. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    I am not Mitt. And I am answering your specific questions why you too afraid of the truth? WE have been giving you straight forward honest answers but you don't want an honest answer you want a dishonest answer which we can not do.
    So I will repeat my honest answer:
    1. I believe in God
    2. God is all just and merciful
    3. God will not punish anyone who refuse to worship Him
    4. God will not seat back while evil ravage this world
    5. One does not have to be a Christian to be saved
    6. Oh, before I forgot...Noah's flood did occurred and humans did not evolved from apes.

    Of course I did it in this post as well because there are distortions and lies being spread about God, the Bible and Jesus Christ that is why I am answering your post so that you will know truth.

    Because there are no women at the Vatican it is all men.
     
  8. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Paul expressed his desire for women to "shut up and sit down".
     
  9. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    John 19: 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

    Luke 1:28 "Hail (Mary) full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women",
     
  10. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law."---1 Corinthians 14:34


    BTW, WR, have a lovely new thread, where you can explain how the Catholic Church "supporting learning and knowledge"....and also came up with the Index Librorum Prohibitorum?
     
  11. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Ephesians 5: 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.

    John 8:7 “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

    Defend women and respect them.

    Librorum Prohibitorum the church does not recognize questionable books regarding God and the Bible. In other words fiction, fables, myths and tales. Modern science holds the same position only well supported studies are recognize as official scientific theories and or discoveries.
     
  12. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    "But keep yer mouth shut in church, lady"....or do only YOUR Bible verses exist and Corinthians 14 doesn't?!?!?!
     
  13. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1940 Librorum Prohibitorum
    No matter how much true literary and scientific values a book can possess, it cannot legitimate the distribution which opposes the religion and good custom. On the contrary, the more subtle and seductive the evil is, the more it necessitates stronger and more efficient suppression of it."
     
  14. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but you are wrong, the reality is the Church in general believes the entire Bible is inspired by God. It wouldn't make sense to say some of it but not all, so the ones that are inspired we can believe but the one that aren't...well maybe we don't necessarily need to believe those parts, and who is to decide which are/aren't inspired?...nonsense I say.

    Let's consider some facts about the bible.

    The Bible is not just one single book. It is a collection of 66 books. These 66 books were written by 40 different authors, all coming from a variety of backgrounds. For example, Isaiah was a prophet, Ezra was a priest, Matthew was a tax-collector, John was a fisherman, Paul was a tentmaker, Moses was a shepherd, Luke was a physician etc. And most of these authors never knew one another personally.

    These books were written over a period of 1500 years and so it reminds us that many of these authors never knew or collaborated with one another in writing these books.

    These books were written in three different languages, written in the ancient languages of Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.

    These books were written on three different continents, Europe, Africa, and Asia. These books share a common storyline, the creation, fall, and redemption of God's people. And a common theme of God's universal love for all humanity. A common message that salvation is available to anyone who repents their sins, believe and trust in God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength.

    The bible is the inerrant Word of God, and so it has no historical errors or contradictions. It would be impossible for anyone to go to any library and find 66 books which match the characteristics of the 66 books in the Bible.

    Considering you must choose 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, written on 3 different continents and they must share a common storyline, a common theme, and a common message, with no historical errors or contradictions.

    If anyone could produce such a collection of books, then I will admit that the Bible is not the inspired word of God. Is anybody up to this challenge? I don't think so!

    In conclusion the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, we can say without any doubt, is the Divine inspiration of Almighty God!
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    thank you for posting the correct passage!

    it's a doozy, and is about the best nutshell expression of the fear of jesus evaporating like a puff of smoke on the breeze in the absence of all that "I can't hear you .... la la la la" fingers in ears and eyes tight shut.
     
  16. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    "Keep your mouth shut is church, lady" is not what is written in 1 Corinthians 14:34
    34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
    Not only women are to keep silence and listen but men as well
    Corinthians 14: 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiri
    tual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

    38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

    39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.


    1 Corinthians 14: 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

    29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

    30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

    31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

    32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

    33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.


    Men as well as women are to be silence if they do not know what or how to interpret the Bible. This is what this gospel is all about not about physical slavery or oppression of women or men.
     
  17. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    If it is scientifically proven the church has no problem just like the church blessed Galileo as the Father of Modern science.
    The church has to be very careful because as you said evil is very seductive and subtle it can hide and disguised itself cunningly in many ways especially in literature.
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Lutheran Church, named after its founder and the father of Protestantism - Martin Luther, does not hold that the Bible is inerrant.

    http://lutherantheology.wordpress.com/category/scripture/inerrancy/

    Those who attend a Lutheran Seminary such as the Missouri Synod ( as a few of my relatives have) go for 8 years or more and learn Latin, Greek and Hebrew. These are true religious scholars as opposed to those that graduate from the various online 2 year courses offered by many evangelical denominations.

    If you attend the Missouri synod you are taught about various places in the Bible where it is known that changes to the Bible were made. This fact does not have to be destructive to one's faith. As alluded to in the statement above - basing ones faith in inerrancy is basing ones faith on a foundation of sand rather than solid rock according to the Lutheran Church.

    The Bible cannon has changed over the years, some books added and some books removed. The content of the Books that remain in the Bible has been changed over the years. Errors, omission, interpolation, and additions are many.

    One good example is the long ending of Mark. In copies of the oldest Bibles Mark ends with an empty tomb. There is no meeting between Jesus and Mary Magdaline after his death and no ascension. Go read it for yourself. http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?=Submit Query&book=34&chapter=16&lid=en&side=r&verse=8&zoomSlider=0

    The reason you struggle so much with Bible contradictions and changes is because your beliefs are built on sand. You think that if even one mistake is found in the whole Bible then your faith will be shaken to the core.

    It does not have to be that way. There are tens of millions of Christians who have a far stronger faith because they do not have to believe in inerrancy.

    Resting ones belief on such a weak pillar undermines the strength of the entire structure.

    The Bible was written by many people over many years. Then it was translated, copied, and retranslated over the years. The people doing the copying and translating were not all acting under Gods direct inspiration.

    Much of the new testament was first written down many decades after the death of Christ. Christ himself instructed his flock not to write things down so the story passed down over the years through oral tradition.

    It is the message that matters. From some of your posts I can see that the message of Christ that you believe is far different from what I perceive as Christ's message.

    I am not saying necessarily that I am right and you are wrong. What I will say however is that your focus seems to be on things other than understanding the true message of Christ.
     
  19. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Can't argue with that statement for that is what he indeed believed. He was considered the first truly philosophical thinker who refuted Gnosticism and offered an alternative Christian system.

    However, needless to say he had his critics who viewed his teachings undermining his otherwise firm insistence on free will, these critics argue, the souls must maintain the freedom to ultimately reject or accept God, or else free will becomes a mere illusion.

    Well people during the OT days didn't need this salvation, for they all lived prior to Jesus Christ and God pardoned their sins as we learn in Scripture, so none of them were condemned. God did this to show He was being fair when He held back and pardoned their sins.

    And you're wrong, Jesus never said anything about works being a requirement. For there is no where in Scripture where he emphatically says this. You are no doubt like many misinterpreting Scripture. You are also misinterpreting James. And there is no contradiction here between what James said and of Paul's doctrine.

    The bottom line is again I state there is no contradiction at all when we examine the contexts. We are justified by faith but that faith must be alive (James 2). The Law cannot save us because we are incapable of keeping it (Matthew 19:16-17). Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith. Click on link below to get a much more thorough explanation if you're interested.

    http://carm.org/grace-or-works
     
  20. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Belief in the Triune God, consisting of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit.

    Sorry but you're wrong. This is not a puppet show, even though God is omniscient it doesn't mean He is pulling us by a string to do His will, for if He was indeed pulling us along by a string, there would be nothing but good in this world, void of any evil but as we can plainly see this is not the case, thus we are free will agents and not a bunch of puppets being controlled by God.

    It's obvious that because of our finite minds we have an inability to understand fully the omniscient God.

    Impossible for God to think the Bible is ludicrous being that the Bible is His Word, His inerrant Word. Now I suppose you're going to ask me to prove it to you?...lol It's all about having faith!

    There are no contradictions, anything that appears to be a contradiction in Scripture can be reasonably explained to remove this false idea of a contradiction.

    The point of life does not come down to figuring what is ludicrous and what is not but rather to trust in God, have faith in Him, and live your life as best as you can so as to enjoy the life God has given you to its fullest and to know there is more to come in the eternity for the ones who are saved!
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First of you can take down the quote attributed to me which contain words that are not mine.

    Jesus said plenty about works being a requirement. You should read the Bible sometimes ... Sermon on the Mount ... Sheep and Goats parable Matt 25 and so on.

    James states 3 times that faith without works is dead and gives examples. Your naked claim that there is no contradiction means zero until you support that claim. James is clearly railing against the doctrine that Paul is professing.

    Paul never did meet Jesus and did not even have his conversion until years after the death of Jesus. Further he was not part of the Jerusalem Church so it is not surprising that he made a few mistakes in relation the teachings of Jesus and his followers.

    The majority of Christianity (Catholic and Orthodox) do not believe in Sola Fide "because" of the many places where Jesus states otherwise.

    You can believe whatever you wish but to claim that Jesus never said anything about works as a requirement for salvation is utter nonsense.

    I would argue that the few places where Jesus does "appear" to be leaning towards the faith based position were later additions by overzealous Pauline copyists.

    This unsettled debate (sola fide) within Christianity is the biggest difference between Protestantism and the rest of Christianity. Clearly you did not realize this.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Clearly it is a puppet show for some. Fundamentalist puppets who can not seem to use the brain that God gave them.

    The trinity was not even invented until 200 years after the death of Christ. The early Church fathers did not believe that Jesus was God the Father.

    Jesus often referred to the Father and every time he does so it is someone other than himself. Jesus even states that there are things that the Father has kept secret from him. Then of course we have the dying words of Jesus (my God my God ... why have you forsaken me.

    Who is Jesus talking to ? Did he forget who he was ? Was he so delirious in his masochistic drama that he forgot who he was ?

    Should we feel sorry for a God who chooses to hang himself on a cross and allow puny humans to inflict punishment on him. If God felt any pain it is only because he wanted to.

    How can I feel sorry for someone who inflicts pain upon themselves. Pity perhaps, but little else.

    There are a large number of contradictions. Paul says women should be silent in Church and not teach men. In the old testament God chooses women prophets to teach men.

    Did God change his mind in the space of 1000 years ?
     
  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about this quote, "Salvation has little to do with accepting or rejecting "his payment". Obviously there was no such think in the OT. As for the NT Jesus himself states a number of times that works are required for salvation.

    James (brother of Jesus) concurs with the teachings of Jesus when he writes his letter (James 2) in refutation of the Pauline doctrine (salvation by faith alone) that some of the early Christians were adopting."

    If you are then I guess you forgot about it cause you sure did make that entire quote.
     
  24. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    There is no mention of 2,000,000 people escaping Egypt in the Bible, that is just a guesstimate, furthermore it never mentions the date, again scholars are guesstimating. So sorry you can't call it a flat out lie until you can present factual evidence.

    But I'm sorry to say you will never get it. All you can do is believe it never happened or believe it did happen with no concrete evidence to back up either belief.
     
  25. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    What is utter nonsense is when you can't back up what you are saying. Please present quotes from Scripture where Jesus is clearly telling us works is a requirement for salvation?

    Why would Jesus require works when He knows not a single one of us can keep from breaking any one of the Ten Commandments?

    Like I stated in my previous post, the Law cannot save us because we are incapable of keeping it (Matthew 19:16-17). Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith.
     
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