Part 11 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Jan 23, 2014.

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  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Are you insinuating that the Great Flood of Noah is copied from the Epic story? If you are then let me do some explaining here to illustrate it's a false belief.

    First let me just say that science has not pretty much completely debunked the Great Flood described in Genesis.That is just a false wish by atheists and so it is not factual.

    Furthermore there is no conclusive proof that Noah's flood story was ripped (copied) from the Epic of Gilgamesh. From the early days of the comparative study of these two flood accounts there is an obvious relationship.

    It was thought that the Gilgamesh account was older than the assumed dating of Genesis. However, the probability exists that the Biblical account had been preserved either as an oral tradition, or in written form handed down from Noah, through the patriarchs and eventually to Moses, thereby making it actually older than the Sumerian accounts which were restatements with alterations to the original.

    The most accepted theory among evangelicals is that both have one common source, predating all the Sumerian forms. The divine inspiration of the Bible would demand that the Genesis account is the correct version.

    The Hebrews were known for handing down their records and tradition. The Book of Genesis is viewed for the most part as an historical work, even by many liberal scholars, while the Epic of Gilgamesh is viewed as mythological.

    The Genesis account was kept pure and accurate throughout the centuries by the benevolent guidance of God until it was finally written down by Moses.

    The Epic of Gilgamesh, therefore, contains the corrupted account preserved by people who did not follow the God of the Hebrews.
     
  2. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    It's rather obvious anything you read outside of the Bible it is "golden" to you, you give credulity to it, anything to do with the Bible it's all hands down.

    Scripture doesn't give us a date as to when the Great Flood occurred and so what is this statement of yours..."It seems they were building them right through the flood"

    I'll tell you what it is....nonsense!
     
  3. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. You read the bible and give credulity to it, despite it being proved to you that much is myth and has events that never happened - proved. I seem to have said that before. Please have faith, but don't claim it true without proof.

    That's nonsense.
     
  4. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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  5. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I've got your back AboveAlpha.

    Look people, DON'T use old terms for your arguments over scientific classifications. What and how they used a word during the days of colonialism has no meaning to the current definitions and system of things.

    Just recently, like in the last 10-20 years the entire classification system that scientists use to categorize everything, like plants, animals, fungi, ect, the entire system has been redone! This is partly due to the influence of DNA and GNOME maps.

    Many Species of animals have been shuffled around and moved between various Families and Genuses. And even now, the categories that we use to classify creatures DON'T always involve linear evolutionary lines, but sometimes it has to do with body type and certain features that scientists want to see, to include it in one certain branch instead of another. Any number of parallel creatures can exist together, in a group, and they are NOT the same species.

    Now, "You big ape!" is often used as an insult in common language.... But, just ignore that when you're dealing with the use of Great Ape as the common term for Hominoidea. Now to avoid confusion "Ape" shouldn't be used alone due to the similarity to the insult, but the classification system is just fine. So, when someone calls you an Ape they aren't insulting you, unless they are! What, are you ashamed of what we are? :grin:
     
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    So Mary is like the first ape that gave birth to the first human. The ape parents weren't humans but their child was. Mary wasn't a god but her child was and she reproduced asexually. I wonder if anymore women will give birth to gods? It seems that the first human was able to reproduce other humans even with apes as mates but gods are unable to reproduce other gods.
     
  7. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a load of rubbish. Gilgamesh existed. He was the Fifth King of Uruk. His name has been found on its king list. True the stories around him may be fictional but they exist as early stories written before the fictional Noah and probable ficticious Moses.

    Ever asked yourself why so many artifacts 1000's of years old have been found giving so many facts, stories and information from the past, yet not one artifact etc about Adam and Eve or Noah or Moses has been found. You say the Hebrews were known for handing down their records and tradition but we have nothing until the middle of the 1st millenia, except a scrap of paper from slightly earlier, written in Hebrew.



    The most accepted theory among every class of student of ancient history, except your Evangelicals, and even many Bible students (and that is a fact from my own experiences of group Bible studies) is that Genesis stems from previous civilisations.

    All you quote is merely supposition on your part because you believe the Bible is inspired.

    Most of what you post cannot be proved. It is by faith. Most of what others post can be proved.

    In ancient times there were many things that could not be understood. Science can now explain many of those things. If there is a creator surely that's why he gave us brains. Or were we meant to be stuck in the dark ages.

    Man has been around at least 100's of millions of years. If you wish to reject science that is your prerogative.

    The Epic of Gilgamesh was around long before the Hebrew version.

    'The Epic of Gilgamesh is, perhaps, the oldest written story on Earth. It comes to us from Ancient Sumeria, and was originally written on 12 clay tablets in cunieform script. It is about the adventures of the historical King of Uruk (somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE).'

    Now here's a conundrum. You reject science unless it supports you view, while WarRen says the CC has promoted science.
     
  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Not all, it does need verification by another source.
    Try it, it makes evidence a little more believable.
     
  9. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not. You are trying to convince the most dishonest person I've ever communicated with. You're on your own.
     
  10. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Well...I do have hair on my Chest so....APE I AM!!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  11. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    What do you think consensus means?

    That's exactly the problem, there should be evidence. There isn't.

    Uh, no, it is actually a huge surprise since the Egyptians were meticulous record keepers.

    And as you seem to not be reading what I'm typing, what you're saying is pure and unadulterated crap. Evidence that should be present, but isn't, is evidence of absence. Just because you keep repeating it over and over again doesn't make it true.
     
  12. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he is. Using a proxy doesn't mean that he is somehow immune from being culpable for it. If I pay somebody to kill somebody else, that doesn't mean that I have somehow washed my hands of all wrongdoing.
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Well...your post pretty much sums up the whole deal! LOL!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  14. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Yap it is real and it is fact the Alps, the high mountains of the Himalayas, North America can experience massive snow storm, blizzards that covers the highest mountain making it very uninhabitable environment to any humans or animals then there is the great sand storm that turn once fertile lands to deserts oh then there is the great volcanic eruptions too all of these = Great Flood. Today scientist are echoing the same warning this time they call it CLIMATE CHANGE AND OR GLOBAL WARMING the key word GLOBAL
     
  15. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Good at least you now agree it is good to wipe out evil. God did not wipe out humanity he wipe out evil. God did keep His creation they are Noah and all the creatures inside the Ark.

    You don't believe God is omniscient I do. Are you again attempting to distort what I posted? >>>Insult Removed<<<

    No Lucifer will not have more soul because I chose God and I assume you chose God too this mean God = 2 Lucifer = zero don't you agree?

    According to revelation in fact it will be the anti Christ that will destroy the world and when that happen God will return and cast final judgement.

    How will Lucifer have more souls if he does not know how to be good? The only way Lucifer will have more souls is when he turn to God and become a good angel. As I said you and I we both chose God over Lucifer that mean God = 2 souls and Lucifer = zero.

    You are thinking and choosing your way aren't you that is free will.

    That is what you said I ask you a simple question do you chose God or Lucifer?
    Why can't you answer that simple question and why must you insist to change my post when I clearly said I CHOSE GOD

    You should stop to bare false witness then:pray:

    Mary mother is female she is like me we are less than her Son Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ is God not because Jesus is a man.
    You are being sexist that is why that is your view.
    "Behold your mother"
     
  16. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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  17. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    The ape fact is what AboveAlpha is claiming for him that would be the case Mary will be that Great Ape or maybe Adam and Eve?

    This is what I have been explaining to AboveAlpha that humans are not apes and never have evolved from apes humans are of human kind created in the image of God not in the image of ape unfortunately he does not believe that do you believe that humans are apes too? Because if you do then this would mean that the first human was able to reproduce other humans even with apes as mates but gods are unable to reproduce other gods. And base on your argument this is why the Bible is very accurate to say Genesis 5
    6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, &#8220;My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.&#8221;

    4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days&#8212;and also afterward&#8212;when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

    5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.

    From the first humans evolved apes these apes are the corruption introduced by those bad angels so now we see remnants of their descendants insisting that humans evolved from apes.
     
  18. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Abraham faith was being tested by God and Abraham believed that God would bring back Isaac from the dead and so Abraham was seriously going to go through with this sacrifice.

    Let me explain further below about Abraham's Faith Tested.

    "Abraham!" God called. "Yes," he replied. "Here I am." "Take your son, your only son--yes, Isaac, whom you love so much--and go to the land of Moriah. Go and sacrifice him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will show you." Gen. 22:1-2 NLT

    When they arrived at the place where God had told him to go, Abraham built an altar and arranged the wood on it. Then he tied his son, Isaac, and laid him on the altar on top of the wood. And Abraham picked up the knife to kill his son as a sacrifice. At that moment the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham! "Yes," Abraham replied, "Here I am!" "Don't lay a hand on the boy!" the angel said. "Do not hurt him in any way, for now I know that you truly fear God. You have not withheld from me even your son, your only son." Gen. 22:9-12 NLT

    God knew Abraham's faith, knew that he would kill his son as a sacrifice, so why did God need to test him? Furthermore, If God knows all things, why did He say (through His angel)..."I know now" as though He had not known it before? Did God require evidence to be convinced of the faith of Abraham? We will see that something else is at work in this passage.

    Scripture tells us God knows all things, past, present, future. Everything that is exists only because He knows it. So for God "not to know" is for the thing not only not exist but unable to exist. All that has being or could possibly have being is known to God. There can be no sense whatsoever in which God looks to the world so as to grow in knowledge of that which He has created. God is all about Truth.

    God not only knew Abraham's faith, but also knew Abraham would be willing to offer his son Isaac in a sacrifice. God knows all that will ever be and, while still respecting human freedom, He without error knew all that Abraham would freely choose. So we can be certain that God did not test Abraham in order to discover whether he had true faith.

    God "tested" Abraham to make his faith known both to himself (Abraham) and to all the world. God put Abraham to the test as a way of revealing to all people that Abraham is truly the Father of believers.

    It happens in Scripture that God is said to “know” something, in the sense that He “makes it to be known.” Likewise, God is said to “not know” something, insofar as he “does not make it to be known.” Thus it is that, in this passage, God tests Abraham – not as seeking knowledge, but as making truth to be known to others.

    The angel, speaking in the person of God, says, "For now I know that you truly fear God" It is not as though it is only at this late moment, when Abraham has offered his son Isaac to God, that God has come to know of Abraham’s faith – God was not learning something new here. Rather, it was at this moment that God (through his angelic messenger) has made Abraham’s faith to be known both to Abraham and to all.

    In summary, the testing of Abraham was not unto God’s benefit, but for Abraham (the father of the Jewish nation of Israel) sake and ours. So when God test people it is really for their benefit so they can really see themselves so to speak.
     
  19. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    There you go you still refuse to understand it wgabrie explain it very well.


     
  20. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    As you look into the future, say 100,000 years from now, do you think humans will look just like we do now?
     
  21. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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  22. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I know Abraham was a despicable old coot but the dummy did have an older son at the time he was going to gut and roast Isaac. That's a fact that the all-knowing God seems to have conveniently forgotten.
     
  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem when you understand Scripture to mean that Isaac was Abraham's only son through Sarah to whom God promised them they would have a son despite both of them being of ederly age. Abraham was a 100, Sarah was 90 when Isaac was born.

    Ishmael was Abraham's son through Hagar who was the bondservant of Sarah.
     
  24. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    God doesn't forget anything, it's you misinterpreting the Bible...what else is new...eh? See my post #348 of this page.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    so, Abraham had TWO sons, but one wasn't counted because god is a bigot?

    incidentally, that 90 and 100 years old thing .... you might want to think about how that sounds to those of us with even a modest knowledge of human biology.
     
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