the minimum wage: reality check

A fifteen dollar minimum wage will price the most vulnerable out of a job. That's not very nice.

 

I can sure think of better things to "go to work for".....Maybe so you can get out of your parents basement, maybe pay for food to eat. If it takes fifteen dollars per hour, why are so many people working for less, in rural or small town USA, average is nowhere near 15/hr and some are saving money or investing. Then in NYC or around DC, and now probably Seattle, 15/hr may qualify you for welfare. Do you even know what the average wage per month is in Cuba, a socialist paradise to some Liberals? Forget hourly and try monthly 20.00/MONTH. Don't tell me they get lots of free stuff either, American's on welfare get the same stuff, the ones that can't or won't work....

 

Whats so magic about 15 dollars ? How do you come up with that. It wont take you far here in NY but it will go a long way in Mississippi. Why work if you can get more money than 15 an hour staying home ?

 

so what. i am advocating for unemployment compensation at fourteen dollars an hour, simply for being unemployed.

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because it competes favorably with the cost of social services. why are you still clueless as to why the wage is fifteen dollars an hour.

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capitalism is about voluntary social transactions not involuntary servitude, for money. that is called being a "wage slave".

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pay attention to the arguments. simply being, Johnny come lately, and still be clueless and Causeless, is not very inspiring of any confidence in your sincerity.

 

Then social services are too high and frankly a problem. Maybe if they make 15.00p/hr the law, Social Services can get an equal 50% increase, Why no just skip a few steps and do what Cuba's does...Take it or leave it 20.oo/mo and that's it.

That's correct and if don't like the offer, go someplace else.

 

So you cant answer the question. The very idea of a Federal minimum wage is ludicrous.

 

too simple to explain the concept.

you are already paying for a war on poverty. that "war" costs around the equivalent to fourteen dollars an hour. it is why it makes rational sense to look for work at fifteen dollars an hour.

why do you insist the poor have to work harder for less, simply to make the, already rich, even richer.

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it is a better reason than anything you can come up with.

 

Where do you come up with that? There are people getting much more than that in benefits.

There is no reason to have a Federal minimum wage. Whats next a Federal maximum wage? The federal government has it slimy fingers in places they dont belong

 

I'll put it this way; Every person in the US, can get educated, work hard, learn a trade or something an employer is looking for. If they fail for any reason, too many parties or prefer surfing, whatever, it's not the responsibility of those that did, to pay for their failures.

Cost to implement any federal program is administering and enforcing. Probably 50 cents of each dollar never gets to the problem.

 

We currently have 5% unemployment. That is what conservatives call "full employment" because anything lower means that wages have to go up.

And what about those 5% that the system REQUIRES to be unemployed?

Screw em huh?

 

The often overlooked problem in this discussion is the fact that employees making minimum wage are being subsidized by us ... we the people .. the government. So Walmart gets to have low cost employees because the government makes up the balance between what they make and a living wage. Should the government be subsidizing these businesses? I thought it was a very republican ideal that businesses should sink or swim on their own merit. Encouraging businesses to exploit people at the cost of the government is not 'sink or swim'.

 

Quite the conundrum eh? Business wants 5% unemployment in order to keep wages low...and WE get to finance the result of THEM not paying us enough.

 

Well, so far the rise in minimum wage in Seattle isn't helping. This is what the dems want nationwide.

 

Get rid of the welfare state and you've solved the problem.

If you want the state to step in and help people who aren't making much money, and you want a minimum wage that ensures anybody with a full-time job can survive on it, then that's another solution. The only way I could agree with that is to leave it up to the states, and for states to pay for all that bleeding heart goodness with money out of their own pockets.

 

all that ignores the fact that people who think like you...consider 5% to be full employment

 

It doesn't matter to me whether it's 5% or 50%. So long as it's up to the individual states to figure this stuff out, and pay for it, then I don't care. See, I don't want to get in the way of a bunch of democrats paying for their social welfare services. Some places, such as seattle can afford to be generous (so long as intel stays where they are), while other places can't.

Just keep your fingers out of my wallet and you can do what you want. Now how much more generous can I get?

 

Well it matters a hell of a lot to those 5%

 

If you're worried about that 5%, just get rid of a few laws and maybe a bureaucracy or three.

 

I think you have it backwards.

Seattle is doing well, in part because we understand that when people earn enough money to live on, they end up spending it - which leads to a stronger economy and perhaps fewer people who need support.

The GOP, on the other hand, works to give the money to the wealthy, and all we have to do is to look at Kansas to see what happens when the GOP has free reign with the economy.

 

economists are the ones who claim 5% is full employment.

Its funny. Democrats say everything is going well. We are at full employment. Wages are going up and the world loves us yet most of the country thinks we are going down the wrong track by an overwhelming majority.

 

Not everyone is benefiting from our growing economy.

Manufacturing is one such segment, it appears.

Let's remember that manufacturing output is growing steadily in the US, and it has been growing steadily since the 1970's, except for the 2008 plummet.

The catch is, that segment is changing. It is becoming more automated (so far fewer employees are required). Unions have been pretty much busted, meaning that manufacturing employees no longer have adequate support in wages, job security, retirement, working conditions, etc. Economists point out that tread deals really are not the problem. Jobs lost to trade deals amount to a tiny percent of our manufacturing product, and those trade deals open the markets necessary for our own products. Plus, manufacturing returned here will mean new business - which is the most automated manufacturing we have.

Trump says he'll fix the manufacturing segment, but he has nothing by China to talk about. And, that is NOT going to change the manufacturing economy here.

And, anyone who thinks Trump is going to strengthen wages, job security, retirement, working conditions, etc., is simply nutty - he's NEVER said he would address those issues and his own background shows a willingness to scam labor at every opportunity.

As Bloomberg stated, Trump is an easily recognizable con man.

 

let me ask you something.

Do you think bringing back a fully automated factory from china. That is 100% automated with no people involved at all (if that exists) is beneficial to the economy or not?

 

Whether I am right or you are right, the important point is that we can, I believe, agree to leaving it up to the local governments to handle. You get your welfare, your minimum wage laws, you fund it through all those people spending money, and nobody has to go rooting around in my wallet for money to fund it.

 

An economy that actually has zero unemployment is in serious peril from other sources, as it is being stifled.

Every advancing economy will have a level of unemployment - the resources and flexibility needed for new business.

 

Those "rooting around in your wallet" are looking for money for those who can't pay their own way.

And, when people get paid the current minimum wage the state ends up doing exactly that.

What we need is businesses paying wages that allow government to NOT be in your pocket.

Again, look at Kansas. They had GOP control throughout government and implemented the GOP dream. There just weren't enough Dems to level an effective challenge!

So, now we have even more pure and clear evidence that your GOP "dream" is a proven total economic nightmare.