Seems odd that Americans once fought the British for their in-dependence and now many Brits are fighting for their dependence.
Isn't a "no-deal Brexit the default? I.e. Brexit will happen whether or not there's a deal. I realize that a do-over referendum could result in "stay", but is that likely?
A no deal Brexit is the main thing the Brexiters spent time comforting the people of Britain would never happen during the Referendum so any propaganda that that is what the people wanted is a lie. Rather it was what most concerned them. We were told we were so mighty and so important we could destroy the economy of all of Europe if they did not do what we wanted that they would be begging us to do anything we wanted rather than allow this to come into being. The no deal racket is the biggest conning of the British Public there has been. Well that has not happened when there was no deal. There was a furthering of time for there to be one and Parliament had voted against accepting No Deal. I guess if the new leader did not ask for an extension when there was no agreement in Parliament then No Deal would come in as 'default'. I think for the No Deal to come in as Default you would need either the new PM to ignore Parliament or for the EU to refuse to give further extensions as needed. Given that people are voting on emotions rather than the situation it is impossible to know what people will vote at any particular moment. Unfortunately our 'democracy' at the moment has degraded to a manipulation of emotions which seems to be the focus from which the 'No Dealers' are working. Whether the UK leaves or not this time of indecision is causing increasing weakness to the UK as the instability makes it a poor risk. No Deal appears to universally be seen by economists as producing the worse future for the people of the UK. It would in any case almost certainly result in the destruction of the UK. Scotland would become Independent, Ireland United, even Wales has started marches for Independence. People supporting it I suspect are working for the destruction of the UK. That brings us to the main topic Money. Why are the super rich elite in the Tory Party wanting No Deal - and a No Deal which all economists say will hit the UK economically worse and will get even worse as years go by, is what they all say will happen..so why do the super rich in the Tory Party want this? Put more intellectually https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018...exit-is-the-wrong-diagnosis-of-a-real-crisis/ A General Election rather than another vote is the best hope to be able to get to the will of the British people but the way politics is being used in the UK at the moment, a deliberate manipulation of the emotions of the people and totally denial of truth and facts, the future for the UK looks bleak.
We're fighting for our independence Fred - being independent from the Brussels parliament? At least some of us are!
The British people want out of the EU. That the EU is trying to make that as difficult and as painful as possible for the British people is no fault of the British government. Practically no one in the British government wanted out of the EU and they were all surprised by the result, so their lacklustre support for any actual exit isn't to be wondered at.
While I'm one of those who certainly hopes Britain regains its independence and am pleased to rubbish those who stand in the way. Think Nigel has a chance?
Bureaucracies protect their bureaucracies and love the power and related entitlements and benefits they bring. Politicians, with few exceptions, tend to become part of the swamp as well. Younger people often have little understanding of what independence and national pride means.
If only! But it would take a seismic shift for it to happen, because his party is an unknown quantity, and the Brits are afraid of change. I hope I'm wrong when I say that the wider electorate would rather vote for Tory or Labour than risk it - especially when their spin machines go into hyperdrive, with the popular press and BBC well and truly on-side. On the other hand, that very same seismic shift might happen if a new PM screws up big-time, or if there's the slightest whiff of chicanery, because I don't think any of us Brits would want to go through again what we've been through for the past 3 bloody years. But I can dream, I suppose?
So BREXIT has gone from "May end badly" to "Ended badly for May" in the month of May which is either May Squared or May minus May being Zero! My money is on the latter but whomever May step into her shoes May decide that a 2nd referendum Maybe preferable to the current Mayhem. SCNR!
37% of the British electorate voted to leave the EU but I am not aware of any voting for No Deal. Indeed a lot of the Referendum's propaganda was on how easy it would be to get a deal and some leavers were suggesting a Norway Style deal. As far as the EU - always blame the 'other' much easier.
'surprised' by it? They're still recovering from the shock to their complacency, which is why they're so determined to reverse the referendum result in any way, and by whatever means.
Add to post 35 "Stop Boris Johnson campaign launched by Tory moderates opposed to no-deal Brexit" See what I mean @Fred C Dobbs? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/25/moderate-tories-launch-stop-boris-johnson-campaign
While it May seem to be a setback you May yet discover that a Mayless future is preferable to what May have happened under May. Maybe you should wait and see what a post May UK May have to offer or Maybe not? You May make up your own mind. Mod edit: Reply to delete
Looks like there is 8 of them now queuing up to be the next failed PM. I notice Rees Mogg is not among them. Biding his time till he can find out where the extreme right is going to bed itself - Tories or a successful Brexit Party which his wife has joined. Looks like it has started already https://www.theguardian.com/politic...unday-interview-round-in-tory-leadership-race The English Nats are gathering apace.
The EU can't keep extending forever, and it is looking like a deal that pleases enough MP's may be impossible. I wonder if the EU could force another referendum, as part of an offer to give one more extension. How does a general election fix the problem? Is the hope that there would be enough like-minded PMs to get some deal passed? From my outside perspective, the Brexit referendum seems to have been a bad idea, because one couldn't know what sort of deal could be attained - so it was based on overly optimistic promises. It's a lesson for all republics.
I don't know. Up till now they have remained on it being the will of the British people and must be done. I don't think they would do that. France did not even want this extension but given that Germany will suffer for a while, probably go into recession for a while, they seem more open. Everything though, even how the Brexit Party acts in the EU is to be seen. They may decide very quick to get rid of us and reading what the wannabes want I see them saying they want us out by Oct 31! (Oh and there is no reason to believe another Referendum would give a different answer. It likely would give the same or a remain with about the same tiny majority as leave originally got.) It would allow parties to put their positions, new or old to the electorate and possibly get in people who would agree on something though given that, as I said, this is all emotion and propaganda, it may not. What is the case is that unless the new PM goes against Parliament which I think is unlikely or the EU does not give us an extension, more likely, we will not sort this with the current government. The Brexit Referendum is the most disastrous mistake a PM has made, some are saying since Suez. The motivation appears to have come from a rift in the Tories and this has only got worse. May appeared to be more interested in healing that than getting the issues resolved. As I said during the Referendum the Leave Campaign, Boris and friends were claiming we could get any deal we wanted. Now, I do not think people care any more and Farage and the Tory far right are doing what such people do which is speaking to emotions and pretending there are no facts. I have no idea what is going to happen to the UK at the moment. It does look like the most self destructive thing I have seen us do and to be frank nothing has changed in that assessment since the beginning. It is highly likely to result in the end of the UK and there is a reasonably strong possibility that England is going to move to the extreme right.
The EU is a good idea, it's the rules and regulations and financials of it that need to be drastically altered, giving more autonomy back to the individual countries.
The EU is a dreadful idea, it doesn't work. There was nothing wrong with the Common Market with a commission.
You have to strip the member states of their sovereignty to create a working United States of Europe. Then one currency throughout the lot. They can go shove that idea, in fact, it's making member states more nationalist.