9-11 Truthers & Holocaust Deniers

Discussion in '9/11' started by Ronstar, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so the evidence and testimony will NEVER satisfy you?

    how nice for you
     
  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Firstly, EVERY single Sonderkommando doesn't lie about the existence of homicidal gas/steam/electrocution chambers since NOT ONE of the inmates processed by the Red Cross acknowledged the existence of gas/steam/electrocution chambers:

    EXCERPT "The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the War about alleged gas chambers. The response was always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them" (Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946)." CONTINUED(1)

    Secondly, I don't reject testimony because of one's religion or ethnicity, I only reject testimony that is dishonest or erroneous .

    Finally, you're being evasive because you'll be proven wrong like the last time you dropped out of our exchange in:
    "About the Holocaust"
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/about-the-holocaust.552312/page-21



    (1) “The Problems of Mass Gassing”
    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/was-there-really-a-judaic-holocaust/
     
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you outright reject the testimony of ANY sonderkommando who witnessed gas chambers.

    you outright reject the testimony of ANY concentration camp guard who witnessed any gas chambers

    why? because you begin with the assumption that the gas chambers never existed therefore anyone who claims to have witnessed them, must be a liar.

    let me know when you abandon such self-fullfilling and circular logic, maybe then we can talk.
     
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  4. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    oh, you also reject any evidence or testimony of the mass deportation of European Jews to Poland.

    why? not sure.
     
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  5. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  6. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you in the past denied Operation Rheinhard, that shipped around 800,000 Jews to Poland.

    you have stated that testimony from Sonderkommando attesting to the gas chambers, cannot be relied upon.
     
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  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I reject testimony that homicidal gas chambers existed because there is no evidence that they ever existed.
    The phony "Gas chamber" at Auschwitz could never have served as a homicidal gas chamber and is used to deceive gullible & poorly informed tourists.
    The only gas chambers in the German controlled camps were delousing facilities to help prevent the spread of typhus.

    Additionally:
    EXCERPT "
    • 1). Germans are meticulous record keepers but there is not one order for the construction of any gas chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any gas chamber or gassed victims.

    • 2). There have been thousands of investigations of alleged Nazi war criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was ever accused of being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on either side has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed—AND THERE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS!

    • 3). Photos of bodies at Dachau and Belsen camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and malnutrition. Many Germans also died from typhus.

    • 4). The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the War about alleged gas chambers. The response was always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them" (Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946)." CONTINUED(1)



    (1) “The Problems of Mass Gassing”
    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/was-there-really-a-judaic-holocaust/
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so you have decided, that anyone who claims to have seen them, is a liar.

    you refuse to accept any testimomy from a Sonderkommando or camp guard or SS officer, that the gas chambers existed.

    why? cause you believe they never existed.

    wow. that's some amazing logic you go there.

    :p
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    wow, crazyness
     
  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so you refuse to acknowledge any evidence that the gas chambers existed, because "there is no evidence they existed".

    LOLOLOL!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  11. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Show me just one of the hundreds of gas chambers that would have been needed to gas millions of people.

    Surely after over 70 years of intense searching, at least a few homicidal gas chambers would have been found.
    Where are they?

    Do you believe that the phony gas chamber at Auschwitz 1 is authentic?
     
  12. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    WTF are you talking about? The “evidence” are the several deaths in my family and the stories told by surviving members of my family including my own parents. Their accounts have been recorded and are archived at the Holocaust museum in Wahington.

    Edit: Not to mention an incredible amount of other evidence and testimonies by countless survivors. I can’t imagine why anyone who doesn’t have an agenda would deny the Holocaust. And similarly why anyone would deny that the official narrative on 9/11 is based on lies and impossibilities.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  13. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no one in this forum should engage you in ANY debate regarding the gas chambers, the mass-shootings, the mass-deportations, as long as you follow such absurd and circular logic

    let us know when you adopt a more open debate attitude
     
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  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    my apologies, I thought you were a Holocaust denier.

    I too am Jewish and lost several relatives in the Holocaust.

    and yes, pretty much everyone who denies the Holocaust has a political or bigoted agenda.

    its clear as the sun. its viewable all over this forum.
     
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  15. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Regarding 9-11
    Regarding the Holocaust
    this is what connects 9-11 Deniers and Holocaust Deniers the most: a total and unwavering rejection of ANY evidence that counters their pre-conceived notion of truth & reality. You can't debate with them, they can't argue with them, you can't reason with them, cause truth & facts is clearly NOT what they seek.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  16. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I’ll give you that some people who deny the Holocaust also deny the official 9/11 narrative. However you can’t lump these 2 mindsets into the same class, the two still have absolutely nothing in common.
     
  17. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    wrong.

    many 9-11 Truthers and Holocaust Deniers base their argument on the same irrational premise and logical fallacy.

    "9-11 was an inside job therefore any evidence to the contrary is a lie or fake"

    "there was no genocide of the Jews therefore any evidence to the contrary is a lie or fake"
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  18. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well there is too much stink around 911 for there not to be a pile of dog **** involved. Including a huge lack of transparency .

    When there is a lack of transparency coming from the bush admin. with millions of americans questioning so many aspects including an illogical series of coincidences, this stimulates those minds that can smell BS and who are harder to con.

    So the breakdown may be between those who can be conned by the official story and those who cannot be conned. Or the herd mentality and the people who will not follow but are more astute and smell the dog **** and wont step in it. While the herd stomps through it.

    Plenty of us dont buy the official story but do no deny the holocaust Nor are we alt or radical right wing.

    The people in PNAC who also were in the bush admin needed a pearl harbor kind of event to get the pnac foreign policy implemented. 911 supplied this.

    I think they knew this attack was coming and allowed it to happen. I consider pnac people to be alt right with some of them holding dual citizenship with israel.

    We know that saudis financed this attack and for some odd reason it didnt hurt our relations with them, indeed they were protected by the bush admin by that 28 page redaction in the 911 report.

    So at minimum the attack was allowed to happen and who knows the other ways they were involved.



    X
     
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  19. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It sounds more like you're looking for an excuse to run off, again, simply because you cannot produce any evidence other than compromised hearsay that a single homicidal gas chamber existed.

    I'll ask the same 3 questions that I posted earlier and that sent you scurrying away on the thread "About the Holocaust",
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/about-the-holocaust.552312/page-21

    Those questions were:

    1. Where are homicidal gas chambers and the auxiliary rooms with extensive fans & ventilation systems that were needed to heat the Zyklon B to a gaseous state and then introduce the gas into the gas chamber and, later, exhaust the deadly gas from the room so that the bodies could be cleared?

    2. Do you believe that the morgue at Auschwitz that is falsely labeled as a "gas chamber" is genuine or simply a fake used to deceive gullible & poorly informed individuals?

    3. Why are there no reports of seeing cherry red skin by any of the survivors?(See below)





    (1)"Johns Hopkins"
    http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/publications/cyanide-fact-sheet

    Signs and Symptoms

    EXCERPT "Other: acute lung injury, nausea and vomiting, cherry-red skin color."
    CONTINUED



    (2) "Cyanide Toxicity
    "

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507796/

    EXCERPT "Patients with cyanide poisoning will not be cyanotic but will have a cherry red color due to excess oxygen in the bloodstream."CONTINUED


    (3) "Cyanide Poisoning Treatment, Symptoms & Effects - eMedicineHealth"
    https://www.emedicinehealth.com/cyanide_poisoning/article_em.htm

    1. EXCERPT "The skin of a cyanide-poisoned person can sometimes be unusually pink or cherry-red because oxygen will stay in the blood and not get into the cells."CONTINUED

    (4) "Cyanide poisoning"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanide_poisoning

    EXCERPT "A cherry red skin color that changes to dark may be present"CONTINUED

    (5) "Cyanide toxicity: Dx
    https://www.openanesthesia.org/cyanide_toxicity_dx/

    EXCERPT "…cherry-red skin, bright red retinal arteries and veins,"CONTINUED


     
  20. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    No I’m not wrong. You are trying to conflate the two mindsets in order to try to dismiss/ridicule those who want the truth about 9/11. The circumstantial and other evidence that 9/11 was indeed an inside job is overwhelming. Even if you believe the incredible garbage story they fed us, there's still more than enough circumstantial evidence pointing to an inside job via complicity. It's difficult for anyone who has any reasonable level of intelligence to believe this wasn't an inside job. You believe this is an:

    But I see it that your belief in the OCT is irrational and an extreme logical fallacy. The storytellers (9/11 Commission) ADMITTED by their own words it's all based on lies and disclaimed key chapters in the 9/11 Commission Report because the heart of their story was based on "confessions" extracted via torture. This is how the Nazis operated, extracting "confessions" via torture.

    The NIST reports (a large part of the OCT) were not based on any kind of legitimate science, the intricate details of their chicanery has been laid out by many experts in many different scientific disciplines. But then again no one needs to be a rocket scientist to figure out the twin towers and WTC7 did not obliterate themselves in a matter of seconds from planes, fire, damage or a combination. This is impossible both scientifically and on common sense.

    And there's not one single issue about 9/11 that has anything to do at all with Holocaust denial. I could also make the claim that some OCT believers are also Holocaust deniers so there must be a connection. Quit peddling snake oil propaganda because you bought this ridiculous BS.
     
  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    You might "think" so but all the evidence points to they did in fact know and allowed it to happen. Why in the world would there be 12 simultaneous military exercises planned for the morning of 9/11 designed to leave the entire northeastern corridor air defenses totally impotent? Who in their right mind would believe this was sheer coincidence?

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-war-games-on-9-11.541533/

    9/11 Family Member Patty Casazza: Government Knew Exact Date and Exact Targets



    https://911truth.org/911-family-member-patty-casazza-government-knew-exact-date-and-exact-targets/

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/cia-directors-documentary-911-bush-213353
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  22. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well those facts are the reason I think as I do.

    Ithink the neocons that came into power with bush used this opportunity to get that pearl harbor kind of attack to implement their foreign policy from their white paper. Given the bellicose nature of their scheme of pnac they needed that attack. And that pnac policy continues to this.day. For that policy included a space force as well as increased military spending.

    Was it coincidence that bush was at a school while cheney was running the show from the war room at the WH?

    You can understand why there is a huge coverup. A faction of our govt sacrificed thousands of our people in order to implement foreign policy that involved invasion and regime change. In order to have the change in policy , a drastic change required a huge attack.

    This shows exactly what kind of govt we have that required a relative small group in order to allow the Saudi financed attack to happen. And it would look like an intel failure.

    The people must never know that this was a conspiracy because it reveals what we are and that we have truly evil men holding power and the republic is dead.

    Of course 99.9 percent of our govt didn't know or were involved. But the executive branch had the power to allow it to happen.

    I dont think bush jr was involved. He was used as an idiot.

    Imo the following anthrax attack that was never solved was part two of this scheme to insure pnac's scheme would get passed along with that national security act that reeks of 1984 .

    And less we forget the cia can get a president 6 ways from Sunday .

    How many people hhave died that said something about 911 that would question the lies about 911?

    I think the conspirators were a small and faithful group that would never bust the others out given the nature of this conspiracy.

    And it doesn't matter if other things were involved for just allowing it to happen is conspiracy enough.

    Other people in govt may think 911 was allowed to happen but also know they are expendable given what these evil neocon bastards did to this nation and got away with it.

    There are many americans who would never believe it regardless. For most people could not accept it and this helps out the conspirators.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  23. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's been a lot of years since I looked into the Holocaust hoax, and assumed these names you posted were associated with the Nuremberg 'confessions'. Up to now, I've been posting from memory...but will go back and refresh my memory on these particular names and then get back to you. Grau already provided some interesting insight on these...but I will add more later on. One thing's for sure, the testimonies/stories of these three people lack credibility, namely because they are inconsistent with the known facts/evidence. That alone should be enough...but there are issues also with the nature of how their stories emerged. In the meantime, I will leave you with these...

    The Fake Nazi Death Camp: Wikipedia’s Longest Hoax, Exposed
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...mp-wikipedia-s-longest-hoax-exposed-1.7942233

    In 1996 Jacques Baynac, a French orthodox historian & once staunchly ANTI-revisionist who for years affirmed the existence of WW2 Nazi gas chambers, does a 180.
    https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n4p24_Faurisson.html

    Many other scholars/researchers who found zero evidence for gas chambers used for executions.
    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/5/4/3230

    Fake smoke added to 1944 photo to 'prove' Holocaust crematorium story. The stunt was so blatant that the Simon Wiesenthal Center even had to remove it!
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/fake/SWCsmokeFake.html

    Another Wiesenthal lie. Phony Museum of Tolerance "Gas Van" Footage that also had to be removed once exposed! (Presented/researched by David Cole, a Jew)

    https://codoh.com/library/document/3276/?lang=en

    Simon Wiesenthal has no credibility:
    "The evident fact that Wiesenthal has more than once altered his story of the six most important years of his life must be considered in connection with his credibility as a "Nazi"-hunter. The ongoing and intensifying hunt for World-War-II criminals (so long as they were Germans, or German allies, accused of mistreating Jews or Communists) has brought to grief more than one man unable to account for what he was doing, in minute detail, forty-five years ago." ("New Documents Raise New Doubts as to Simon Wiesenthal's War Years" - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p489_OKeefe.html)

    ON 'EYEWITNESS' TESTIMONIES

    "Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz, who was himself interned in the ghetto of Kaunas (Lithuania) during the war, criticized what he called the "hyperhistorical" nature of most Jewish "survivor testimony." He wrote that "most of the memoirs and reports are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."

    "Shmuel Krakowki, archives director of the Israeli government's Holocaust center, Yad Vashem, confirmed in 1986 that more than 10,000 of the 20,000 "testimonies" of Jewish "survivors" on file there are "unreliable." Many survivors, wanting "to be part of history" may have let their imaginations run away with them, Krakowski said. "Many were never in the places where they claimed to have witnessed atrocities, while others relied on second-hand information given them by friends or passing strangers." He confirmed that many of the testimonies on file at Yad Vashem were later proved to be inaccurate when locations and dates could not pass an expert historian's appraisal."


    "We now know that witnesses at the main Nuremberg trial gave false testimony. Perhaps the most obvious were the three witnesses who ostensibly confirmed German guilt for the Katyn massacre of Polish officers."

    "Use of such unreliable testimony continued in "Holocaust" trials in later years. Federal district judge Norman C. Roettger, Jr., ruled in 1978 in a Florida case that all six Jewish "eyewitnesses" who had testified to direct atrocities and shootings at Treblinka by Ukrainian-born defendant Feodor Fedorenko had wrongly identified the accused after being misled by Israeli authorities."

    "One of the most blatant examples of perjury by Jewish Holocaust witnesses in recent years was in the case of a retired Chicago factory worker named Frank Walus who was charged with killing Jews in his native Poland during the war. A December 1974 letter from "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal that accused Walus of working for the Gestapo prompted the US government's legal campaign. During his trial, eleven Jews testified under oath that they personally saw Walus murder Jews, including several children. After a costly and bitterly contested four-year legal battle, Walus was finally able to prove that he had actually spent the war years as a teenager quietly working on German farms."


    And, the witch hunts continue. See more at "The Nuremberg Trials and the Holocaust" - https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p167_Webera.html
     
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  24. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of what you posted in theoretical terms (theoretical only because we really don't know the truth), except for what I highlighted. Bush was deeply involved no matter how you slice it. Even if buy the fairy tale, Bush's actions/inactions, body language, subsequent actions/inactions and claims paint a picture of deep involvement in the stand down and coverup at the very least. The coverup of a crime of this magnitude is blatant complicity. A coverup has only one purpose, to protect the criminals.
     
  25. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thanks for that...but it's really impossible to say what's true because of a lack of transparency, an ongoing 9/11 coverup campaign, and the ongoing effort to protect the official story. One thing's for sure, the official story of OBL's assassination in a U.S. raid lacks any credibility...and the U.S. govt. cannot afford to ever let the truth of that be exposed or else more people will start questioning the whole 9/11 and 'war on terrorism'/Middle East campaign scam.

    However, I did find these which seems to corroborate what you posted.

    https://galacticconnection.com/usama-bin-laden-died-in-december-2001-of-marfan-syndrome/

    https://theantimedia.com/iran-claims-it-has-proof-bin-laden-died-long-before-us-raid/

    http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/
     
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