End the Scourge of White Supremacy

Neither here or there. I will have to address this later.

Iran doesn't lack anything and neither does the US. Nor anyone else in this world. Not because of the paradigm you have constructed, but because of an alternative paradigm to both what you have constructed and what we have that I prefer. New paradigms, however, aren't things we can develop easily in even long messages in a message board. I will touch on some of it later.

I am not sure I understand you mean by "debt free money"? The US, however, is already capable of issuing "money" to cover all you have in mind and not even suffer a real devaluation of its currency. Demand for US dollar is not pegged to US production. Hence, unless the US is printing more money than all the good and services being traded in the world based on the US dollar, it will be fine. It doesn't spend that money to alleviate the 'poverty' you allude to for other reasons.

I will have to read more about what you mean by MMT. So far, I have not heard much to change my view on these issues.

I don't think so

From my perspective, everyone who is too attached to the material world and its treats, is ultimately a slave. Some are slaves fighting for the basics to simply survive from one day to the next. These are the easiest slaves to control. Others are slaves to various 'treats' that are meant to control them likewise. A few are wealthy enough to be freed from the former type of slavery, and enlightened enough to be freed of the latter, to begin their journey towards genuine emancipation. But, to be sure, we can never be truly emancipated: we do have a role to play in this universe and the closest to being emancipated is to find ourselves capable of fulfilling that role in accordance with our true gifts and abilities. Not chasing unnecessary treats that are often meant simply to keep us even more enslaved.

In the meantime, as China does rise in stature and wealth, and its middlemen slave owners become rich and have a class of affluent people to rely upon, China is definitely no longer going to be the ideal place for the new plantation system of the global economy. For one thing, some worry the middlemen in this slave trade might rebel against the ultimate slave owners, especially now that they have more power and wealth. For another thing, there are better candidates for this slavery called 'development', specifically India, because you can find even more ready slaves there. Now, don't get me wrong: it is better to be a slave of these slave owners than to be slaves of some others. And slavery is something that people would even freely choose, if the alternative was hunger and poverty and inability to survive.

True to some extent, but not entirely. However, the real import of this is that a country that hasn't trained its people to do genuinely productive or clever things, isn't going to be doing all that great. I am not suggesting the US is 'third world' in this regard: it still produces enough clever people. But the US is NOT nearly as competitive in producing 'clever people' (if stripped of the advantages of its Ponzi scheme control over the global economy) as it is in the current world order. The US position, based on purely merit and genuine productive capacity, would fall significantly behind many others. The US would not be, at least for quite a while until it again learns to retrain its people, the top economy or power in the world without the Ponzi scheme.

I am not left, right, or center in the western scheme of ideological divides

Like Marx, whose critique of the capitalist system had more insights than anything he might have implied about what is to come after it, my reaction to the 'utopia' you paint is the same. Put differently, there things to learn from the young Marx and his dialectical materialist conception of history (as long as we don't get too dogmatic about applying a general, and not complete, insight and then try to give it more specific application than ti deserved), as there are things to learn from the old Marx and his "laws of capitalist motion' (as long as the purpose is to learn, not to find a new prophet, and as long as we can easily distinguish between what he said that was insightful and that which wasn't), but neither Marx nor his progeny have ever come up with a workable alternative. In practice or theory.
And they won't, as long as they treat Marx as the new opiate to feed to the masses. Nor as long as they imagine that the material world and material forces (both important and the most immediate ones we need to worry about) are the only forces (or even the most powerful) in our larger universe.

Hopefully, I will get to introduce my thoughts on these issues, step-by-step, through the various discussions we are having.

 

I have been noticing people saying they do not think there is racism in the U.S. This really is a common argument on this forum. That seems to be the time we are living in...just say it isn't.

Here is what the man who started the Jim Crow Museum said - I think the video was two years ago so when he speaks of two years it will now be four and being two more years I would suggest it is two more further down the road.

From the below video

 

Racists, as individuals, exist in all races. Even then, I'd say most are more segregationists who prefer living with their own race, and have no malevolent will toward those in other races.

Racism was largely wiped out with the Civil Rights Act an the Voting Rights Act in the 1960's. That provided all Americans with equal opportunity in the jobs/economic arena and in higher education.

There has still been some systemic racism in place since the 60's, within and by government. LBJ's Welfare programs created dependency and disproportionately set blacks back behind other races, and destroyed families. The crime bills written in the 1990's by Joe Biden during the Bill Clinton administration set up the system where blacks were more often targeted and pulled over, and jailed with mandatory minimum sentences for minor drug crimes.

Progress is being made today to fix some of the remaining errors of the past. The First Step Act, passed in 2018, wiped out the mandatory sentences of minor drug offenders and is retroactive to 2010. The act also put in place prison reforms which improve prison conditions and reduce racial disparities while in prison. In December 2019, funding for black colleges was made permanent so that advocates do not have to spend time and resources to lobby for funds every single year. Yesterday, an executive order was signed to make choke holds by law enforcement illegal across the country, except in life and death situations.

Most of what is called "Racism" today, equally impacts all people in poverty. It should more accurately be called "Poorism". Progress continues to be made in the last vestiges of areas where "racism" is an apt description.

 

Were those crickets or cicadas I heard. Must have been crickets because the end of climate change via COVID cured the planet of the ravages of mankind and industrialization like the 17 year cicada cycle.

 

Negro
Black
African American Lives Matter

 

They'll get back to "The planet is going to die in 12 years," in December.

Since money donated to BLM goes to fund Democrat election and reelection campaigns, we're in the 5 month period when black lives matter to democrats. Happens every four years since the group started.

 

So you believe it is alright because you believe you are not the only racists. I have come across some stuff about the way European Americans have consistently treated black people. It is so banal. I accept that people have had a tendency to be afraid of strangers. However from the beginning the attitude and actions of Americans to black people has been to see them as non human and there for them to abuse. When I was listening and reading I thought OMG this is exactly the sort of stuff Jews say they had to put up with. Why the hell is there not the same song and dance for these people. The US has claimed to be a free country when it never was at home, never mind away. Basically LoneStarGirl white America has repeatedly treated Blacks with inhumanity. It is that and it suggests a very sick people. Psychologically healthy people just do not do that.

I'm not American but it is obvious that black people still do not have the same rights as white people. I understand this is evident in issues concerning housing, getting jobs, schooling even. The US is so like Israel. I can see why you all support her so much. She too treats people who are not white as sub human.

For me never mind everything else the reality that a white cop felt fine deliberately murdering a black man who could not possibly harm him and that he did it in front of many people believing that he would get away with it - he was in fact a psychiatrist said showing off that he had the right to take the life of a black man and this has been repeated and repeated and repeated. This tells me that in America unfortunately you have some people who are put in places of authority which allows them to kill people just because of the colour of their skin. You cannot get worse than that...

I am quite willing to believe that the majority of Americans are not consciously racist and I am aware that there are many white Americans who are more than aware of the situation they are now in. In Ferguson your black people said that the people they were getting the most help from were the Palestinians. Your police have been taught by the Israelis. The Palestinians have experience of that. LoneStarGirl ordinary Americans have been sold out by your Oligarchy and of course there is the knife edge we are on for saving our planet. I have listened to intelligent black activists talking and saying they would be more than willing to work with white Americans to find a way through this so that you do not find yourself ever more oppressed and poor but they say most white people who share these troubles with them are not able to move and work with black people. Our societies always try and give us propaganda so that we do not know what is going on....but hey listen to this black woman talking about the racism which is endemic in the US of A. She is easy to watch

 

The Cries and accusations against so called "white supremacists" are simply a diversion, an attempt to neutralise the right. According to the left anyone who does not support them or who speak out against them is a white supremacist... so simply one more tool they use to attack conservatives.

 

end the scourge of black supremacy.

 

The taxes are always being raised on the working middle class - who the politicians always call 'rich' when they know they're not. The billionaires pay nothing. They have the tax loop holes.

The best thing of course would be a graduating luxury tax, where the more expensive the item, the higher the sales tax. Of course that would lessen the production of luxury items, but that's okay, the companies can produce cheaper items.

That together with a flat tax would be great, but what about the accountants who are being paid to make head and tails out of our tax laws. Do you think they would ever allow taxes to be simplified?

This reminds me of our lawyers and the frivolous law suits that destroyed our medical system - which at one time was considered the best in the world. So who wins in all this? You figure it out, it's certainly not us.

 

Yes...a sort of instinctive tribalism that exists in us all, if unconsciously.

The problem with that is twofold:

1. generational disadvantage is demoralising, and affects values and attitudes
2. The job market is always highly competitive, so the less-able, as well as the demoralized cannot always partake in the "equal opportunity" that exists on paper.

That's why true "equal opportunity" can only be established with a Job Guarantee.

Welfare is always an expensive disaster, the policy of the Left who don't know how to introduce a Job Guarantee. But of course the Right prefer to accept disadvantage as somehow 'natural', and do nothing to eliminate poverty, preferring to deal with the resulting criminality by going down the 'law and order' route....just lock people up. Note: poverty destroys families, as much as welfare dependency.

Yes; no job = crime

Real unemployment among blacks is still double that of whites. You have to fix that....by eliminating ALL unemployment. (Study the JG in MMT for details).

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/mmt-overcoming-the-political-divide.569365/

I agree completely with this. I doubt Michelle Obama or Oprah Winfrey or Michael Jordan experience racism; certainly not of the type suffered by Mr. Floyd.

 

GENUINE conservatives would be calling out the racist white supremacists.

Strange how the only "conservatives" that are speaking out are DEFENDING the RACISM of white supremacists.

That tells me that there are either no GENUINE conservatives anymore or that racist white supremacists have taken over the term conservative entirely or both.

There have been a number of FORMER republicans who are condemning the racist white supremacists but they are derided by the "conservatives" probably because they do not endorse the racist White-Supremacist-in-Chief.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't slavery diminish during the latter part of the Christian Roman Empire?

 

Where are these white supremacists? Are you sure this isn't just an excuse for Africa American society to excuse their own failings? If America is full of white supremacists how come Jews, Asians and Orientals are doing so well whilst Hispanics are rapidly catching them up?

 

Sovereign currency issuing governments with their own treasury and reserve bank can issue money to fund specific public programs, other than by selling interest bearing bonds to the private sector.

Commercial banks of course charge interest on loans; whereas the sovereign currency-issuer can fund itself with interest free 'loans' , provided the resources on which to spend the funds are available for purchase.

eg, a government can fund nationalization of the electricity grid, as part of a transition to a green economy, by issuance of debt free money, to fund the purchase of the goods and services and labour required.

Only to the extent that the US has the resources which can 'absorb' the additional spending (as mentioned above); a limitation that applies to all countries.
(...disregarding the power of the pentagon to determine resource allocation - and the US ponzi as you refer to it - around the globe).

Modern Monetary Theory: upgrading macroeconomics in our post gold-standard, fiat currency era.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/mmt-overcoming-the-political-divide.569365/

recently explored on NPR; see post #553 in the above link.

Certainly, the concept of "wealth creation" via production of grog, drugs, junk food, gambling, advertising etc...the whole crock of **** needs examination....

Agreed.

But I did detect the "it's all up to the individual's personal responsibility" conservative paradigm in your remarks. I reject this as simplistic, because community well-being requires community intervention to facilitate universal individual responsibility.

Well the link above is available.

Meanwhile, people still refuse to see the association between poverty, "racism", "white supremacy", and police shooting blacks in disproportionate numbers, in the US.

Get rid of unemployment, and these "race- based" shootings - actually poverty-based shootings - will disappear.

 

Recent black immigrants are not having the same "racist" issues that African Americans who have a lineage back to slavery are claiming to have. Newer immigrants in many instances are realizing tremendous success in America, particularly with advantageous Affirmative Action laws, and out-earning people of other races. Even more and more African Americans have been able to dig themselves out from the burden of the Democrats' Welfare Plantation. They become "Uncle Tom's" to the black communities they leave behind, those who continue to be "victims" of the system. It's not about race. It's about poverty.

People who fit into a civil society and succeed are accepted while people who fail to thrive and live in poverty are scorned by society as though they caused their own personal failure. Sometimes the poor are victims of circumstance. Sometimes they make choice which maintain their poverty. There is a global prejudice against the poor. It's a poverty issue. The fact that a disproportionate amount of African Americans are in poverty compared to African, Asian, Hispanic immigrants is partially due to historic systemic racism, but that cannot be blamed for the entire issue today, when we see people of all races rising up economically in the U.S. because of the ample opportunities to succeed.

Your non-American opinion is noted. Is it formed by popular media and internet opinion?

Everyone agrees that George Floyd's death was a murder. It was a rare incident caused by a bad cop. The numbers do not bear out that these incidents are anything but rare. Still, police departments across the country are reviewing their operations and making changes to prevent and lower even these one-off events. There is good coming out of this.

Good. We can agree that the majority of Americans are not racists, and that society is heavily influenced by political propaganda.

 

The entire system is based, ultimately, an illusion. And the illusion requires sometimes the notion that there is something to 'back up' the currency being issued, even if it is merely debts or bonds. Just changing the digits in the banks the Federal Reserve injects money into, without the illusion, is not (IMO) going to address anything in particular. Let me explain this:

1- even tied to bonds, the US government is actually able to create as much illusory wealth (with no devaluation) as it could by simply changing the digits in the manner you have alluded to. The reason:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_use_of_the_U.S._dollar

And they are right. As long as the 'debt financed' currency does not exceed overall worldwide demand for the US dollar (in light of the USD's role as the reserve currency of central banks around the world and the currency for international trade and more), the US can effectively 'change the digits' you mention and pretend it is doing so backed by something (even if it is just debt).

2- Whether this is done by changing digits or by selling bonds/debt, the cushion the US has to effectively 'print money' is great. It is great because the US basically takes actual things of value produced elsewhere beyond it sells to anywhere else and gives those selling these items US paper money in return. It is a good scheme: others toil and work to produce, while you hand them paper you print. And they accept the "exchange" because they can use that 'paper' to buy things from others even when you aren't, yourself, producing as much as they could use with that paper.

3- If the US doesn't "print" even more than it does (whether through the way it does now or by doing what is suggested by MMT), is ultimately connected to a host of very complicated issues going to the heart of the present international global economic system. One of those (but not the only one) is the fact that abusing this privilege too much (beyond the huge cushion) it can expose the Ponzi scheme and make some people say: I want a real product and not the paper money/statements (or digits) you are issuing (or transferring through the MMT model you propose). Another reason (and there are still more) is that, even if the US could totally eradicate poverty, illness, and more, and guarantee all of its citizens a basic standard of living (it would be, ultimately by robbing Peter to pay Paul, or more like robbing Kim and Mohammad and others internationally, as both Peter and Paul are already enjoying in their own way things they could not get through a system that used barter for exchange), it would only create a situation where it has less (not more) control over the behavior of people whose basics are now assured. Losing that control has the same ramifications as splurging your dog with food and treats regardless of whether he is learning and following your commands: this would not be an obedient dog. It is the same with people. The real issue is what tricks is this master trying to teach his dogs?

Anyway, we each have our own view of these issues. Ultimately, if you peel one layer after another, you get to very fundamental questions. The kind that, if you are convinced that the material world is the 'be all and end all of everything", leads to totally different results than if you imagined that we are on an evolutionary path that has some meaning and purpose beyond the material world. On this latter point, for me, there is no denying the forces and realities of the material world. What I dispute is that these are the only forces that exist or the only ones that "matter" (poor term, which reminds me of the quip, "never mind, no matter" and its origins in philosophy)? And when you dig deep enough, my own answer to the latter is that the material world is only a small part of the real universe, even if it is the visible and knowable part of it. Our evolutionary progress as humans (and why I have referenced some medieval Persian thinkers), to me, is meant to bring us closer (we can't at this point) in understanding the other, non-material, part and forces in the universe. For now, we either have faith they exist and for a purpose that is "good" or we don't. And if we don't, 'humanism' that at the same time teaches that ultimately there is no larger good, isn't going to work on 'tricking' the more intelligent who learn that its dictates are more hindrance than use for them personally, as they seek to advance the interests of the pack and then the self.

Some science that isn't about any of this, but isn't irrelevant to it either:
https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy

 

I will just address this point quickly for the time being, because the rest of your long post (which I will read later) probably follows from your assertion that value of fiat currency is based on "illusion".

In MMT (Modern Monetary Theory) the value of the nation's fiat currency derives from the fact that citizens NEED the currency, in order to carry out transactions and to pay for services, fees, fines and taxes* owing to the state.

It is this NEED that causes the citizens to accept - on faith - the value of their own government's currency.

* in MMT, taxes may be levied to control sectoral overheating in the economy, but taxes are NOT required to fund spending by the sovereign currency-issuer.

[Note: vis a vis other nations; the comparative value of the currency depends on the the resources and productive capacity of the particular nation, but this is not the issue I am addressing in this post, re your remark about an "illusion", above].

 

@a better world
When you finish reading my post (if you so choose), I can then try to see if there is some point I like to respond to. I think the post covers the issues (including issues which we simply disagree, both in specifics and more generally). But, of course, I could be wrong. You have no obligation to put me on the right path, but won't succeed unless you actually read carefully what I have written. And the same in reverse

 

The DHS and FBI know who they are and the Domestic Terrorism CRIMES that they are committing.

 

It can be argued. It is racist nonsense, but I guess people could argue it.

There was no Jewish "exclusivity in business." Plenty of Germans owned businesses.

 

And so obviously the German people are just bad people? That is just as nonsensical.

 

Most of what is called "racism" is simply rational thought. Leftists use that label in order to intimidate rational people into silence. They do this becsuse they don't have rational solutions to any problems. If sane people are silenced, leftists are free to make bad situations worse.

 

Because he's racist?

 

It depends upon which Christians you mean. Yes, the Chinese and Irish were mistreated but not enslaved as the Africans brought here against their will.