Psaki: Even After Vaccine, You Still Need to Social Distance and Wear Masks

A claim you can't sustain, not when they could provide everyone with...



... a $50 item that provides superior protection against getting the virus.

 

Are you aiming to offend? Do you have agenda?

 

Of course not.

Why do you care?

 

You assume, I suspect, you know what to do to save the economy, but I see no evidence you know what to do.

 

Certainly not.

However, I thought we already agreed on various aspects of these devices, incuding aspects that made them less than satisfactory as COVID masks, at least without modification.

 

The misinformation is coming from you in part. There is sterilizing immunity as well as functional immunity. You have only referred to functional immunity in your posts. We are dealing with functional immunity with some of the vaccines. Phizer is doing trials now to determine if sterilizing immunity results after the booster. With the very high titers of neutralizing antibodies shown in previous research as well as B and T cell memory, it’s quite likely the mRNA vaccines will induce sterilizing immunity (with the caveat on sliding scale sterilizing immunity below) in the absence of mutations.

But we don’t have sufficient information to claim natural infections and some vaccines aren’t inducing sterilizing immunity in a large percentage of individuals. It should be noted sterilizing immunity is a bit of a sliding scale as even measles which was long considered to confer lifelong sterilizing immunity has been discovered to infect vaccinated individuals who then transmitted the virus to others.

Neutralizing antibodies are thought to be key to sterilizing immunity (and each new study that comes out confirms neutralizing antibodies persist after natural infection) and it isn’t known what level is needed to prevent reinfection. Decreasing titers of antibodies post recovery are the norm for viral infections—certainly not unique to C19 and not necessarily predictive of immunity given our limited understanding of antibody independent cytotoxic CD 8 T cell activity (much faster reacting than once thought) and the known quick reaction of memory B cells.

In short, yes “immunity” can mean a pathogen can’t “live” or “reproduce” in the body. It depends on a number of factors only hinted at above. Neutralizing antibodies destroying/inactivating the virus before cells become infected is the most understood direct method we know for this to happen. And the point in relation to C19 is that there are definitely individuals who are conferred “immunity” by vaccination (and natural infection) that protects them from being infected and subsequently shedding virons. We don’t know the percentage, but for vaccines like the Phizer mRNA it should be high based on the high titers of neutralizing antibodies produced. We will know more after their studies on asymptomatics. It’s too bad they didn’t test for antibodies produced by natural infection but not by the mRNA vaccine in phase 3 trials. It seems strange to me infection rates weren’t determined serologically to begin with.

Just out of curiosity, how many cases of C19 annually in the US do you expect if 70% of the population were vaccinated and we stopped all mitigations like mask wearing in public? How many infections are acceptable with or without mask mitigation after mass vaccination?

 

So everyone’s just supposed to trust you when you say you got the vaccine?

 

The CDC doesn’t know their hand from their ass, but don’t worry, the cons at PF know their ****!

 

Me : "The biggest danger of this misinformation is that many think that being "immune" means that they cannot infect others"

You "In short, yes “immunity” can mean a pathogen can’t “live” or “reproduce” in the body."

It's very dangerous to imply that sterilization immunity is possible for this disease when no evidence exists. It's not like polio or HPV which are not transmitted through droplets and do not replicate in the upper airways. Especially when the length of "immunity" being banded about is 6 months.

I would appreciate any links to the statement I have bolded above on which I will then re-access what I have previously written.

As for the 70% figure question, I don't know, I've just used the figure quoted by others who know more

 

If you don't believe them, wear your mask, you'll be all right.

 

What?

 

Hillary? No one cares what she has to say. You're looking more and more like a spent force.

 

She's an improvement over whining Kayleigh. Who the #$%* cares, anyway?

 

This may help you to understand.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

 

You seem intent upon politicizing mask wearing. Why?

 

Uh-huh.... What the "spent force" is, Langley, is Democrats always yowling, bitching, and blaming Trump for EVERYTHING!

Radical Democrats loudly railed against everything Trump did to combat the spread of this perplexing, powerful virus. They screamed he was a "racist" for correctly identifying it as "Chinese", even though that is where it originated. They bitched and complained that he didn't move fast enough to magically snap his fingers and produce a vaccine -- although his "Operation Warp Speed" did essentially exactly that, in a time-frame never dreamed possible before.

Joe Biden has inherited ALL of these successful efforts, including two vaccines in use in the United States right now, with a third (and possibly better one) on the way very shortly. Hint: It's a hell of a lot easier to drive a car after someone else has designed it, assembled all the parts, built, tested, and gotten it into production... all you've got to do is plop your ass in 'the driver's seat' and smile at your adoring Democrat crowds who are oh, SO, glad that mean old, incompetent, "racist" Trump is GONE....

But, now it already seems that there's a variety of problems that are surfacing surrounding everything from production, distribution, and actual administration about who gets which 'jab', with what assigned priority, how often, in what manner, etc., etc. And because Democrats cannot brook any criticism or acknowledge any possibility that "their guy" isn't any better at running this whole 'virus' thing than Trump was, you can bet your last dime that anything that pops up the reflects poorly on the Biden admn. will be immediately blamed on Trump.

This idiotic 'blame-game' will be extended to include ALL Republicans, who will be collaterally accused of trying to "obstruct" and retard everything poor, ol' Joe tries to do! . It's all so reminiscent of Hillary whining about "a vast right-wing conspiracy" -- and if that shoe 'fits', then WEAR IT....

 

You don't have to modify this mask...



... to comply with the letter and spirit of masking requirements--just put a mask over the one-way valve, just below "3M" logo on the pictured respirator.




Superior protection for $50. It could save you from illness and even death.

 

This looks like EXACTLY the kind of protection we're going to really need when those new dangerous virus 'mutations' hit the country. The UK "variant" is supposed to be the DOMINANT strain right here in the U. S. next month! After that, we can expect that the South American and (even worse) the South African 'strains' will be everywhere, too.

I know we are poles-apart politically, but thank you, Langley, for posting information about this mask! The virus doesn't care whether we are liberals or conservatives....

 

Are you confusing ginned up media reporting with what Democrats, through their leaders or spokespersons, said about Trump Administration actions and policies?

Some "screamed" he is a "racist," but that's how party radicals on the left get media attention.

Even Omar and AOC didn't complain on that score. You're spouting propaganda.

There has been a worldwide effort to develop covid vaccines, so the Oaf's "Operation Warpspeed" is more Trump hype.

https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2020/3/covid-19-vaccine-tracker​

Inherited from the Orange Bloviator who conned millions of Americans into thinking he is responsible for vaccine development?

Trump put together the worldwide effort to develop a vaccine?

Overall, Trump dropped the ball on covid.




He didn't put together a national consensus on dealing with covid.

It's all about propagandizing stupid people--on both sides.

"Operation Warp Speed" is hype, but you didn't know that. The pols depend on people not having the time or inclination to focus on issues.

 

It’s important to think for oneself instead of just basing our opinions on a headline somewhere. Of course there is evidence for sterilizing immunity. Here’s one study with great evidence.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034545

This is the largest scale study I’m aware of.

In light of the above information let’s consider this. By all accounts vaccines like the Phizer mRNA one induce neutralizing antibody titers much greater than through natural infection. Some reports are 4-5 times higher. So we would expect better sterilizing immunity from them than natural infection (which above we see is quite common). Here’s some preliminary information and “expert” opinion from Israel.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ti...nd-shot-have-high-level-covid-antibodies/amp/

So in conclusion there is plenty of evidence for sterilizing immunity if you look somewhere besides tabloid journalism.

I’ve not seen anyone postulate on acceptable numbers of cases after vaccination. That’s why I asked your opinion. It seems there is a growing belief that at some point this virus will be eradicated with vaccines and masks. It’s important to remember herd immunity is not absence of infections or deaths. I’ve seen a lot of misinformation in that regard over the last year as well on PF. I prefer people start thinking about what level of infection and death ARE acceptable now so we can have a target instead of the continental goal post relocation we are seeing now.

 

The funny thing about the right-left divide is that people across the spectrum agree on a lot more than they disagree about.

“I don't like that man. I must get to know him better.” -- Abraham Lincoln

 

From your link:
Conclusions
"The presence of anti-spike or anti-nucleocapsid IgG antibodies was associated with a substantially reduced risk of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in the ensuing 6 months".

Hence NOT immune. I even wrote practically the same thing where I wrote "Immune just means that you have a high level of resistance to a disease" . And in the study the subjects were young (median age 38 ) healthy people. There is no evidence that unhealthy vaccinated older people who will have a poorer immune system cannot be carriers and cannot be infectious

And from the other link "were unlikely to be carriers or infectious" and "But much remains unknown, including its long-term protection." hence no evidence that vaccinated people cannot be carriers or infectious. And your link states that the level of antibodies was measured at the expected peak. Antibodies begin to drop off rapidly after the peak. The vaccine has only been mass used for one month and the point is that it's very dangerous for you to promote that people will not be carriers or infectious for 6 months due to being "immune" after vaccination especially when more and more strains are being discovered

With reference to herd immunity, I think that once a pre-determined percentage of the population have been vaccinated we should bite the bullet and open up fully and encourage the population to have a yearly vaccine until cases substantially drop

 

Give a person a card. Let me have a card for my anti-bodies test. There is no reason for me to wear a mask or socially distance. I cannot get it again for at least 6 months and I cannot transmit it.

 

Me too. Which is why I feel safe NOT masking up and actually (gasp) sitting down to a meal in a restaurant. Live music can't come back soon enough either. F covid. At some point we need to accept the risks and just get back on with it.

 

Oh FFS, it will never be "safe" enough for you people. Just go cower down and pray for a quick end to the world.