How Long Can Ukraine Resist Before They're The Bad Guys?

Biden's weakness on Ukraine meant that Ukraine is already lost. It has been less than a week and Russian military is already at the capital. They're going to overrun the Ukrainian military and Biden knew that before the war started. Still he went with ineffective sanctions that at best won't do anything for another month.

If Russians take over Kyve and Putin repaired the buildings and announces that he would provide peacekeepers so that the refugees can return, how long will Ukranian resistance last? How long can the resistance be seen as heroes if they can't push out the Russian military and have to resort to small fights thar prevent families from returning?

 

Biden has done as much as we can short of WW III, is WW III what the right is suggesting?

 

Not WWIII, not even war, just deterrence by keeping military option open.

 

the longer the hkes resist the more aid the world can get to them.

people are saying that many militant right wingers are headed that way to form "abraham lincoln buigades" in support of the russians. judging by rheir performance on jan 6 that should be a great comfort to ukraine.

 

Give it time. And the failures of war will become apparent.

 

How long would you continue fighting for America? Or where ever it is you are from..
For Putin, and Trump sympathizers, Ukraine became the bad guys as soon as they fought back.

I guess they expected them to fold as quickly as Afghanistan did.

 

What could he have done differently to change the outcome?
I don't think the sanctions were ever intended to stop an invasion. I look at them as punishment for invasion and a display of what could happen next time.

 

People are saying?

Heh, no one is saying that. However I have wondered why the left isn't forming their own Lincoln Brigades to fight the Russians. We have all kinds of antifa kids who think it's their duty to fight fascism, well now's their chance! In the 30's leftists, including many prominent people, joined forces in Spain with the Communists to fight Franco. What happened to that spirit? Come on guys!

 

Inflicting as much financial pressure as is possible on Russia and it's inhabitants is the right approach.

 

Ahhh...

Alinsky at his finest.... suggesting something that is not being suggested...
Liberal speak 101...

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.”
RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

 

Keep US military response open as an option before the war, and the war never would have happened. $2 sanctions won't do anything.

 

The problem is that to keep the military option open, the US would have to be willing to follow through with that threat and accept all the consequences of declaring war on Russia and directly engaging with their forces in a third country.

I got the impression that the general opinion in the US was that, even with full more support for Ukraine, no US forces should be directly involved in the conflict. I don't think any President (regardless of party) would have been able to threated a direct military option and I don't think the US congress would approve it (which I believe they would need to). If the US wouldn't (or couldn't) follow through with the threat, it wouldn't have had any preventative effect and just made them look even worse when it didn't happen.

This is also not all about the US and exactly the same limitations apply to all the other countries who could have theoretically intervened directly.

 

The US never have to declare war. Just the threat of it is good enough. When Turkey atracked the Kurds after Trump withdrew US forces, Trump responded with a tough stance. He told Turkey that if they escalated any further he would use force. As a result Turkey kept their military operation small and only attacked the Kurds.

 

Again, the threat is only good enough if you're actually willing to follow through. Putin knows the US is never going to actually declare war on Russia to defend Ukraine (regardless of what any President would say) so the the threat would be empty and less than useless.

 

You guys got to turn everything f****** political. I'm a trump supporter I don't like this war I don't like what Putin's doing but I'm not ignorant enough to not understand why he's doing it and how this could have been prevented.

Now you can translate that into whatever kind of partisan dumbass b******* you want but that's the reality I just thought I'd make it clear so that you're not confused

Brandon and nato f***** up when they told Putin to f*** off when he addressed his concerns to them in the form of demands.

Now I don't like Putin demanding anything but to think there wasn't going to be a reaction from Putin after being told to f*** off and that the Ukraine gets to pay the check on that is the reality

 

That's what you call making things clear? They messed up refusing Putin's demands because although you would have done the same you would have expected them to invade Ukraine, and done what exactly?

I appreciate that you're making an effort to have your own mind, and it's not your fault that the initial response from Trump was.. let's say vague.

The desperation I'm seeing to make Putin's invasion Biden's fault is unnecessary, and counter productive to any attempt to defeat the Democratic Party politically. Because it doesn't pass the basic reality check. So what you'll wind up doing is these convoluted half positions that read as though you're just excusing a pro Russia position without endorsing it.

The Democratic partisans will skewer you on it, and the moderates will shrug and go "well Russia invaded they look like the aggressors to me".

It's a losing position Trump started walking it back already, and I expect will continue to.

 

No I wouldn't have done the same. I would have held a meeting with Putin and privately assured him no chance in hell would Ukraine get membership to Nato. And to be fair the military drills near his border are just asking to spark trouble so likely would not have exercised them.

But Biden didn't do that. Instead he told Putin to **** off in a bold and brave stance that now has Ukrainian people paying the ultimate price for. Good job, Brandon.

But now since we are in this mess the correct course is to back off and let them sort it out. Which likely ends up with Russia now owning Donbass, Ukraine getting smaller and some puppet leadership implanted that will be corrupt as **** and will insure that Ukraine never joins NATO.

 

A bunch of Americans flying to Ukraine could muddle potential of diplomacy even further.

Interesting though I saw on video Putin has arrested over 1000 peaceful protesters. Hundreds on camera being arrested for simply holding up a sign. Yet the right can't even call Putin for what he is but have no problem calling Trudeau a fascist.

 

I was just going to say sounds like Trudeau there!
All he has to do now is go after anybody that's supported those holding the signs as well you know toss them into jail without any chance at bail and he would be Trudeau which apparently were okay with?

 

No one is arguing about what Putin is. So that's not even the question. So what about Trudeau? Was his actions fascist?

 

It's too late, Biden needed to be able to credibly threaten military action before this started. His words leading up to this were comically mismatched with what was on the table and what has happened.

Now we have all bad options. All of our hopes rely on the Russian people rising up in one way or another - from sanctions, to a revolution, to a peaceful coup, to Putin backing down due to unrest. Everything else is some form of give up the Ukraine or escalate to ground war.

 

What utter nonsense.

 

Sounds more like the Rus, doing the suggesting, to my ears.

That is quite a creative bit of propaganda, there. People will turn against the underdog Ukranians, if they don't bring a speedy end, to the fight, huh? I guess, now that you mention it, by the 8th or 9th round, in the film Rocky, I was over the whole fighting against overwhelming odds, thing, and had started to root for Apollo Creed. Same thing will probably happen here, for the rest of the world.

Actually, BTW, the Russian heavy artillery advance stalled, about 20 miles (not kilometers) from Kiev. And even when those forces, eventually, reach the city, it will be nowhere near surrounded-- only blocked on the north & northeast, I believe I'd heard.

As far as the sanctions, I think "ineffective," is more than a small exaggeration. Don't forget, also, that it is not only governments which are looking askance at Putin's Russia, but Corporate business interests, as well. Here is a thread, that I just created, about RUSSIA'S LARGEST FOREIGN INVESTOR, BP, deciding to cut & run, though it will result in charges of $25 billion-- with a "b"-- on its balance sheet.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/oil-giant-bp-quits-russia.597453/


There are yet further sanctions, including embargos, that can be employed, if Putin is a glutton for punishment. I think Biden, in the interest of keeping together, & further expanding, the coalition against Russia, is trying to not push for too much sacrifice, too soon; that doesn't mean that, if the present hammer ⚒️ doesn't do the trick, he's unwilling to swing a bigger one. (It is only his not going directly after Putin's assets, for now, that I wonder about).

But the biggest fantasy in your scenario, is the idea that the Ukranian people will want to come back to their apartments, after Putin has executed their President Zalensky, & installed a puppet government. If that's what Putin believes, there await for him, even more unpleasant surprises, on his Ukranian vacation.

 

Hey, you kids, play nice. Those talking about fighting in Ukraine, are Neo-Nazi groups, in Europe. Even if they actually follow through, I doubt they will have much impact. Certainly, the Ukranians could use any help they can get, even though it would be completely uncoordinated with Ukranian forces, if these Europeans want to go play soldier. There is the possibility, however, that after capturing some of these Neo-Nazis, which would assuredly happen, assuming the Russians are taking prisoners, the Kremlin will use this in its propaganda war, against the West, claiming that these citizen militia forces were actually sent by whatever country they'd come from.

As for your question, Lil Mike, I don't think that same sort of violent resistance, on the Left (what remains of it), is being directed towards foreign, fascist regimes. Rather, it is fighting for civil rights causes, right here, at home, for animal rights, and against global polluters.

 

What a joke. Putin was going to quail, if the U.S. said, "boo." Yeah, right.

And you think Turkey is a fair analog to Russia, ay?
That could explain some things.