Who does—and doesn’t—support sending U.S. troops to Ukraine

My guess is that it's going to happen eventually, it will just be on China's timetable.

 

ah but why....from what perspective do you come from in order to come to this conclusion?

 

In a similar case, with Hong Kong, it was transferred back to China in 1997. They didn't immediately roll in the tanks and establish Communist Party control, they bided their time and slowly boiled the frog. Now of course democracy is pretty much dead in Hong Kong. With Taiwan, they seem to be fanatical that Taiwan is part of China and are offended by any suggestion that may even hint Taiwan is a separate country. So they want it back, but I think they are smart enough to wait until they view the conditions are optimal.

 

And yet you were silent and ignored US/NATO aggressive expansion.

Maybe you were still in diapers and don't remember the aggressive US/NATO expansion.

The US illegally overthrew the Ukrainian government. That was in 2004 during the Bush Administration which was also pumping money into "pro-Democracy groups" to create the Arab Spring. Maybe you were still in diapers for that, too.

Russia knows if it doesn't act now with Ukraine, then US/NATO aggression will continue into Belarus.

You mean like the US did? And has done for the last 125 years?

You do realize your insatiable infantile demand for everything is what's fueling this, right?

I've been saying for 15 years you need Iran to get control of Central Asia to get control of the eastern Russian republics, or your economy collapse.

A couple of years ago your government finally admitted what I've known for decades:

The costs of not implementing this strategy are clear. Failure to meet our defense objectives will result in decreasing U.S. global influence, eroding cohesion among allies and partners, and reduced access to markets that will contribute to a decline in our prosperity and standard of living.

[emphasis mine]

https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Do...gy-Summary.pdf

If your MECAS Strategy fails, you might wanna move to Russia, because life might be more tolerable there than here.

The real Conservatives know that, which is probably why they're not very supportive.

When you embrace the Truth, you will no longer be a pseudo-Con.

No, it isn't. Maybe you should tie a pillow around your face so your knee-jerking doesn't break your nose.

It isn't their problem.

If you spent 1/10th the time you spending trying to overthrow governments and steal all the wealth and resources from countries on building the economy in the US, you'd be 10x richer than you are now.

 

HK is an interesting example as we've all seen the riots and students being suppressed with tear gas and newspaper editors arrested and imprisoned and newspapers shut down. However, when Thatcher and Patton were negotiating the terms and conditions of the return of HK with Deng Xiaoping there were some very strict red lines drawn into that agreement. The Chinese stated quite openly that free speech was okay, you could criticise the government and the communist party etc BUT if there was violent disorder they would move in and stop it. These rules were clear and understood, unfortunately those students that chose in the name of freedom and democracy not to heed this red line and started throwing molotov cocktails actually did their bit to kill that democracy.

of course they are, they get offended about a lot of things, about people shoving their crappy human rights record up the noses but so what? They do want it re-integrated but does that mean they will go to war over it...doubt it very much unless there is a radical change of leadership.

 

Oh, yes, it is.

When I was in Honduras, our job was to escort some "suits" around through the jungles so they could threaten and terrorize villagers into voting for the US-backed pupped dictator.

When the dynamic-duo Obama-Clinton illegally overthrew the Honduran government in 2009, that was the 14th time in 120 years the US has illegally overthrow a Honduran government.

The Russians learned that from the US which had no qualms of using brute force on the sovereign nations it invaded.

 

For the record, I'm opposed to sending American troops to Ukraine, mostly because I think it shouldn't be our sons' (and daughters, to a limited extent) job to die defending Ukraine. I'm all for providing all the arms and ammo that Ukraine can reasonably make use of killing Russia's sons.

There are plenty of problems in the world. More, in fact, than we can resolve even with our awesome military might. We ought to be more circumspect about the application of military force and more humble and realistic about the limits of what it can accomplish.

 

If Trump was in office we would be sending troops to support Putin, I'm certain of it.

 

Come off it. We all know know for the fact that the Ukrainian energy company paid big bucks to Hunter Biden. You have no leg to stand on.

Are We Supposed To Believe This Is A Coincidence?

Events in Ukraine have seen interest resurface in the business dealings of the president’s son with Ukraine, Russia and China. Is this yet another past “conspiracy theory” that can no longer be dismissed? #Ukraine #HunterBiden #Russia References https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...

 

No troops, not now, not ever. The Ukrainians haven't asked for that and they seem to be doing quite well on their own.

In Vietnam we went in to support what we were told was a democracy against "communism" but it turned out we were fighting for a guy who admired Hitler against a guy who thought Abraham Lincoln was a really great man.

 

Maybe your corrupted president has already got you involved because of the millions his son and his family received from the Ukrainian energy company.

 

And Trump now hates the Ukrainians because they wouldn't go along with his Blackmail plot.

 

And maybe Trump told Putin to start this invasion and he would watch his back through clandestine influencers over here.

 

Oh no....The democrats and the whole press literally covered up wrongdoings of your current president and his corrupted son. People like you owe an apology to America and Americans for covering up and blatantly lying. Bidens are exposed.

 

I wish the U.S. would make up our minds whether to go all in on this...or not at all. Half measures won't make any difference (except to impoverish Americans, which might be the point, but that's another thread). I am on the fence about it. Like sanctions for instance; the time for sanctions came and went. I suppose the goal is to impoverish the Russian people and provoke a coup. And that would probably be a good thing, which might happen in five years. Ukraine will be long gone by then. They need short-range solutions, not long-range ones right now.

 

Hunter Biden was appointed to serve on a Corporate Board of Directors for a hefty salary and he did so. Appointees to Corporate Boards are quite often close relations of pols with no other qualifications than having the ready ear of a powerful person. It's a common practice, done all the time. There was no cover-up because nobody did anything wrong.

You guys are getting worse and worse, when will you hire a group of small children to run after Biden shouting "Daddy, daddy , we're hungry" everywhere he goes?

It's the Republicans who owe an apology to America and several years of hard prison time in many cases of your leadership for trying to end the American Democratic Republic, the "Last best hope of the world" according to the Greatest Republican whose memory and legacy you have permanently besmirched by electing such a disgraceful, dishonest and despicable Piece of SH*T as the 45th President.

 

A coup can be as short term as a general pulling a pistol. I keep expecting the bulletin saying Putin is overthrown every time I turn on the tv.

 

Yeah. You can nuke the rest of the world 'cause the US has a secret special relationship with the current Ukrainian government. I, on the other hand, am adverse to that idea.

 

...yeah....unfortunately the world doesn't work on short term fixes. The issue here is the consequences of a person that has constructed a national narrative based on an irrational personal fear formulated by insulating himself from the rational world. The narrative is forcing the issues and the world is watching the consequences....short term fixes will not work

 

Don't feel bad; a full quarter of Independents couldn't make up their minds for the poll, either.

 

So you’re buying the Russian propaganda machine that we were engaged in creating bio warfare….. wow

 

Usually the world sits back and watches when we do it, because we are so much better at playing "the good guy". Russians can never convince anyone that they are doing it for anyone but themselves.

 

No, but he probably would have put pressure on Zelensky to surrender.

 

I will third the sentiment, of surprise at such high percentages, both of 41% of the country, & 50% of Democrats. I can only think, that is an endorsement of the findings of a psychologist, in another thread here, who says that democrats, or those on the left, care more about injustice, than "conservatives." In that thread, btw, this was not painted as a slight against the Right, but in fact, more so against the Left, because their valuations of the 6 identified principles were skewed for them, as opposed to very evenly emphasized, by Conservatives (understandably, since 3 of the principles had to do with traditions, respecting authority, and religion, I think).

Anyway, in this respect, @Junkieturtle hit the nail on the head-- oooh, poor nail-- that this has to do with a humanitarian impulse, empathy (as well as a sense of outrage, at injustice-- which @Pro_Line_FL also saw). But, as I think you, Mike, pointed out, there are, & have been, other humanitarian crises going on, around the world, as in Myanmar, for instance, which haven't aroused the same interest, much less passion, in people.

A very large part of the explanation, to this stark difference, must be attributable to NEWS COVERAGE, which has been been swarming over this story, at least since the start of the invasion. It would be interesting to see how the reaction might vary, if the people were not as easy to see as like ourselves, if they were a dark- skinned, tribal people, for instance. But, if that were the case, would the News coverage be as intense? It's kind of a chicken & the egg, thing. Less coverage means less citizen interest; but there's less coverage when the news outlets assume that white Americans will feel less empathy, for those that seem too "foreign." I mean, there's been an outrageous & tragic persecution of people of Haitian descent, in the Dominican Republic, for around a decade, yet I never see any coverage, despite this being right in our back yard.

I realize that this invasion is a special case, though, not just because of its scale, but because Russia is involved; and Putin's liberal firings off, of nuclear warnings, guaranteed only better ratings.

While I share the outrage, as well as feel compassion, I don't think our direct military involvement is the wisest move, at this juncture. I just feel we have been holding back too much, on material assistance; still, I understand that the Administration sees even that, not without potential, serious risk, precisely for those, whom we are trying to help.

 

Trying to enforce a no- fly zone, over a large part of Ukraine, is tantamount to declaring war on Russia, in Putin's eyes, & would very likely lead to that. And a conventional war, against NATO, is something that Putin's troops are clearly not up to, so this would make the use of battlefield nukes, a high probability, as well.

I favor getting planes to the Ukranians. Eventually, however, I can imagine very narrow no-fly zones, enforced by NATO, just for corridors of safe passage, for refugees.