Austin Orders Renaming of Bases that Honor Confederate Rebels

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, Oct 7, 2022.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,271
    Likes Received:
    22,659
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I just think it's funny that this only became an issue after the country spasmed over racial issues. We went for decades with no mention of it previously.
     
  2. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, not like there were huge racial issues in the early 1860s and the decades before that lead us to this discussion in the first place or anything
     
  3. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,271
    Likes Received:
    22,659
    Trophy Points:
    113

    None of these bases were named, or even existed, in the 1860's. I've no idea what point you think you're making.
     
  4. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dude, it isn't even about race. It's about naming out military bases after our military enemies, which we shouldn't be doing. It makes as much sense as naming a synagogue after Farrakhan or a teen beauty pageant after Epstein or a driving school after Ted Kennedy.
     
  5. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Secession was not unanimous but was popular, the majority of Southerners went with it. Many fought in the Confederate military, many others fought because the North brought the war to their home. Some (like John Hinson) stayed out of it and tried to stay neutral but the Northern soldiers raped or murdered family (in Hinsons case, murdered 2 of his sons, decapitated them and stuck their heads on his homes gateposts) and the survivors fought out of revenge. Many Southerners supported the effort without serving in the army or navy.

    Technically from a Northern perspective they all fought against the United States. You would label them as "Confederate traitors".

    What would you do to those traitors?
     
  6. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    25,610
    Likes Received:
    13,904
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How about Fort Pendejo?
     
  7. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,271
    Likes Received:
    22,659
    Trophy Points:
    113

    OK so your mention of the 1860's didn't mean anything.
     
  8. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It does if you know about the Civil War.
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,271
    Likes Received:
    22,659
    Trophy Points:
    113

    OK what do you think I don't know about the civil war that is relevant to the comment you made?

    It seems like you were talking about race but then you said:

    So...I'm trying to figure out what statement I made that you are disagreeing with?
     
  10. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because it was not an issue and it’s still not really about “ among bases after traitors”. It’s about destroying the foundation of the nation.

    Notice it’s always started by the democrats, and it’s always “America is bad”, it’s never something positive.

    And all the people that fall for it and support the issue whether it’s naming bases or a million genders are just working to destroy the nation.
     
  11. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,271
    Likes Received:
    22,659
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Earlier generations didn't consider them "traitors." President Eisenhower had this response when asked why he kept a portrait of Robert E Lee in his office.

    August 9, 1960

    Dear Dr. Scott:

    Respecting your August 1 inquiry calling attention to my often expressed admiration for General Robert E. Lee, I would say, first, that we need to understand that at the time of the War Between the States the issue of Secession had remained unresolved for more than 70 years. Men of probity, character, public standing and unquestioned loyalty, both North and South, had disagreed over this issue as a matter of principle from the day our Constitution was adopted.

    General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America; he was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers and men, forbearing with captured enemies but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous in battle, and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle. Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his belief in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.

    From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the nation’s wounds once the bitter struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.

    Such are the reasons that I proudly display the picture of this great American on my office wall.

    Sincerely,

    Dwight D. Eisenhower
     
    Battle3 likes this.
  12. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You got the first sentence right, it has nothing to do about race. Or who the bases are named after. It’s about destroying every bond that unites the nation. That’s why sports teams have to be renamed, to destroy tradition and history, to make people who felt proud to be a fan feel ashamed or at least shut them up.

    This has zip to do with confederates, that’s just an excuse.

    And by supporting this you are as much a part of te dismantling of the nation as any socialist revolutionary.
     
  13. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Try reading that back to yourself again. You want bases named after people who tried to divide our nation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2022
  14. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thats shallow BS.

    Secession was not taken lightly, it was a last resort and the result of 50 years of increasing abuse by the North. Congress was controlled by the more populous north and passed laws (not pertaining to slavery) that benefited the industrial north at the expense of the agricultural south.

    Plus secession was thought to be a legitimate avenue, Massachusetts threatened secession over economic more than once. States voluntarily joined the national compact and were free to leave.

    The north is as much to blame as the south. Your attitude is so simplistic it’s childish.
     
  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dude, secession was about slavery. The seceding states said so. I can give you some history tutoring if you want, but no one who has even tried studying can deny that. If you do want to go down that road, buckle up, because I've provided more contemporary sources from the south from the time period than anyone else in the forums. Your historical revisionism won't survive.
     
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You are correct.
    Once upon a time, republicans were liberals.
    And they liberated a people.

    Unlike the Conservative south. Who fought the USA to keep slavery. The south is the problem.
     
  17. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn’t write it was not about slavery, it was about slavery and more. The laws passed in the decades leading up to the war were almost always about trade - forcing the south to buy manufactured items from the north by levying large tariffs on European goods, and forcing the south to sell agricultural products to the north and not to Europe.

    The north controlled congress, the south had no political avenue to correct the situation.

    Take your own advice and get educated.
     
  18. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And I have an extensive library of civil war books and diaries, more than you could possibly have read.

    Many do not list slavery as a reason for joining the confederate army.

    General E. P. Alexander’s diary (never intended to be published, but published years after his death, and you can get an edited version on Amazon) has extensive entries on whether he should stay in the US Army or go back to Virginia. His #1 issue was whether his loyalty to his state superseded his oath to the US Army, slavery was not mentioned.

    His entries describe discussions with fellow soldiers who wanted him to stay in the US army, their diaries corroborate Alexander’s entries, neither discussed slavery as a factor.

    You have a myopic, incomplete, and incorrect view of the War between the States.
     
  19. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113

    And this is part of what President Taft said at the cornerstone laying of the Arlington National Cemetary Confederate Monument (in 1912):
    Cornerstone Laying of the Arlington National Cemetery Confederate Monument | American Battlefield Trust (battlefields.org)

    You are here to celebrate, and justly to celebrate, the heroism, the courage and the sacrifice to the uttermost of your fathers and your brothers and your mothers and your sisters, and of all your kin, in a cause which they believed in their hearts to be right, and for which they were willing to lay down their lives. That cause ceased to be, except in history, now more than half a century ago. It was one which could elicit from half a nation, and brave and warlike race, a four year struggle in which lives, property, and everything save honor were willingly parted with for its sake. So great was the genius for military leadership of many of your generals, so adaptable was the individual of your race to effective warlike training, so full of patriotic sacrifice were your people that now when all the bitterness of the struggle on our part of the North has passed away, we are able to share with you of the South your just pride in your men and women who carried on the unexampled contest to an exhaustion that few countries ever suffered. The calm observer and historian, whatever his origin, may now rejoice in his heart that the Lord ordained it as it is. But no son of the South and no son of the North, with any spark in him of pride of race, can fail to rejoice in that common heritage of courage and glorious sacrifice that we have in the story of the Civil War and on both sides in the Civil War.

    Its interesting to read of the attitude of people who lived during or close to the war. They were certainly better people than many of todays generation.
     
  20. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    13,961
    Likes Received:
    6,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Uhmmm... its 2022. Can I send you a desk calendar to remind you?
     
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,271
    Likes Received:
    22,659
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is an interesting thought, that the further in time we get from the Civil War, the more hysterical the hatred and fear of it is, even though it's been in the dust over 150 years. Meanwhile the contemporaries of that time, men who fought or who's fathers fought in that war, are able to have a more balanced and nuanced view of the war, what it meant, and the men who fought for the Confederacy, then is possible today.
     
  22. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,286
    Likes Received:
    48,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What is it you would like to remind me of?
     
  23. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    13,961
    Likes Received:
    6,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That slavery is long gone. Like the guillotine.
     
  24. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,286
    Likes Received:
    48,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm well aware of that. I just think it's funny that the left has a problem with the Confederacy but the founding fathers all owned slaves.
     
    AARguy likes this.
  25. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,271
    Likes Received:
    22,659
    Trophy Points:
    113

    No they hate the founders too.

    So give them credit for some consistency.
     
    AARguy and FatBack like this.

Share This Page