Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To be fair, it sounds like God didn't actually order that.
    That seems to have been Joshua's decision. Other members of his family like may have been culpable and knew the treasure had been stolen. It's hard to bury a big treasure under your tent without other family members knowing.
     
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You make some of the most confounding statements of self deception "I don't question God's Judgment"

    What does this mean ? The first problem is your assumption that you know what Gods Judgment is ... something one would have to know in order to question it

    So tell us .. what is Gods Judgement ? Answer -- you have not the faintest idea .. which makes your claim complete nonsense.

    Second ?? -- you claim the OT Bible is Irrelevant (what the Israelites were doing way back when) .. which means you don't care about "Gods Judgement" .. not that you don't question it .. and again makes complete nonsense of your original statement.

    Third " My obligation is to God of this day" .. So what then .. you have no obligation to the God of the past day ? .. not that you have any idea who or what this God is .. and what if these Gods are the same .. as they surly should be .. in which case you have again made complete nonsense of your comment .. as if you have no regard for the God of the Past .. and it is the same God as the present .. then you have no regard for the god of the present .. contradicting yourself ..

    Ouch .. my apologies .. but what can I say ?
     
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  3. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    That sounds warped. If one person tries to murder you, and another helps you to be a better person because of it. You don't give the credit for your increase to the attempted murderer. You give it to your savior. sheesh! Satan was trying to destroy Gods work. And the dumb head stepped right in it. Satan is not only evil, but stupid to boot. Why would anyone in their right mind worship such a stupid evil entity.
     
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  4. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty simple. I live in 2023 AD, not thousands of years BC. And I don't questions Gods counsel in any age. I only know his counsel to me in mine. One can't know God by reading about him. One can only know about him in that fashion. To actually know God, one must first be known by him. Then you can know his heart and spirit and divinity, because he has dwelt in you. I know he lives and is divine. That's why I don't question his judgment in any testimony past or present. Of ancient times, I am not privvy to the circumstances in which they lived, or Gods hand in the matter. So I say I don't question Gods judgment. It would be stupid to do so. Jesus didn't say that to see or enter heaven one must know all things, but that one must be reborn of spirit and water. And he didn't preach the gospel of knowitallism, but of repentance.
     
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  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No one in their right mind would but someone who is not so gifted and not in their right mind would worship a stupid evil entity.

    Ok thanks Brother Injeun for your post.
     
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  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What on earth are you talking about mate .. you were asked a simple question .. what Mormonism thinks the identity of the Dragon in the Garden was.

    What does that have to do with someone trying to murder you mate ? you then go on to infer that the Dragon is Satan .. which we know is not the case from Job .. Satan is on God's side .. his Son .. a divinity but subordinate to the Father .. not acting outside his will.

    so .. thats not it ..
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That would be you Mitt .. describing yourself -- the one who runs from the teachings of Jesus -- the one who wishes to substitute man made dogma from his idol for the word of the Word .. blaspheme against his teachings .. and then run around accusing others of worshiping your good friend the deceiver.

    For as we Read in Scripture -- Matt 7 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    Why are you ashamed of the one you worship .. that you don't want to tell us the name .. if not Beelzebub .. is this the name of the God you worship Brother Mitt .. for shame .. for shame ..
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What part of ... "You have no idea what God's council is" did you not understand.

    What is further nonsense - self contradiction - self delusion --- is you claiming that one can not know God by religious texts ..then claiming to not question God's judgement in those texts .. the texts you don't read .. and don't understand..

    and of course it would be stupid to question something you know nothing about .. but this contradicts your claim to know something about Gods Council .. the only place to receive this council .. from some religious text ..

    You don't know any of Gods council to you beyond religious texts .. but - it is interesting that you do not believe the Bible is 100% Gods word .. does Brother Mitt know about this lapse in fundamentalist belief ?
     
  9. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    That's warped. By reducing God and elevating Satan to teammates, you place yourself as God, and they your equal toys, with you obliged to nothing but the fallacy of the warped belief. All the while, your own soul and eternal welfare hangs in the balance. Satan has tricked you into believing what he would have you believe. By elevating Satan and reducing God to an equal standing, you have done away with right and wrong, thus making free choice a flip of the coin without consequence. Satan is at war with God and mankind. He was banished from heaven with his following. And he will be consigned to hell in the end again with however many more followers he gains from among men. And in the end you will worship Satan because you hold him equal to God and unjustly punished. So you will gravitate to the underdog. And you won't see that his entire purpose within himself is to make you miserable as he. He is a liar and a murderer who wants to be worshipped, glorified and honored. And you are within his trajectory with your line of reasoning.

    "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child." Revelation 12:7-13
     
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  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No .. whats warped is you avoiding the fact that you claim the Bible has no merit in one sentence and then are quoting from it the next

    Second .. why are you blaming me for what the Bible says .. and projecting what you do onto me .. as you are the one always putting God in a Box .. Speaking for God (see above) claiming to know God's will directly .. but not from the Bible which is worthless for that purpose.

    Then you make up falsehoods .. never was Satan Elevated to Equal standing with God . I stated directly the Bible puts Satan as Subordinate ? and you are the one who does not know who God is .. who does not know which God is the God of the Bible .. and as such it is you who puts God beneath Satan.. as at least Satan represents something .. where your God is the God of Nothing but your imagination .. by your own statements .. so don't blame me for lowering your God .. that was all you.

    Who is it Satan has Tricked ? .. who is the one blaspheming Jesus .. supplanting his Word with man made dogma .. running around speaking for God .. as if God sat with you for Tea the other day and explained his thoughts to you..

    Who made you arbiter of my .. or anyone elses eternal soul ? .. usurping the Position of Jesus . who will one day .. according to scripture.. sitting at the right hand of the father .. . Judge your nasty blasphemy -- I pray Christ will be gentle as the lad knows not what he speaks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    You seem to have it all figured. I'm glad for you.
     
  12. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Your life is yours. Have it as you will.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow .. just Gobsmacked you were .. unable to respond .. but would have been better to not respond at all than with a final attempt to demonize the messenger -- tar the messenger with your failings.

    "You seem to have it all figured out -- I'm glad for you" OK .. so you completely avoid addressing any of your ridiculous, false and illogical comments .. and cry Waaa Waaa Waaa .. firing off some know it all slur.

    But even in this pathetic blather .. you can't help but project your failing onto others .. as it is not me running around pretending to have it all figured out .. not me claiming to know God's thoughts directly .. as if God sat with you for Tea .. not me usurping the position of Jesus .. substituting his word with your made up and/or man made dogma.. Thats been all you fella ?! putting God into some little box of your own making and then turning around and accusing others of what you are doing.

    We call that strawman fallacy combined with projection in my neck of the woods .. what they call that in the Mormon Sunday School - and did they not teach you about Satan or did you skip the lesson on Satan from the Book of Job .. Thats the one where Satan is a Son of God .. and Son does not act outside the will of the Supreme one.
     
  14. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Weird beliefs. You can have them.
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are welcome to think the Bible is Wierd .. the teaching, stories, beliefs. but, why do you want me to have them if you think they are wierd ? .. Thats wierd

    What's also wierd is thinking that your claims on God's behalf ..carry more weight than the Bible .. you giving the Bible no weight .. but then quoting the Bible as if it has merit in relation to your claims about God. This is illogical circular whack a doodle my Friend .

    What is also wierd is thinking that the man made words from some idol should be substituted for the words of Christ.

    The Bible depicts our good friend Sataniel as having a very good relationship with his Father .. The Father Boasts to his Son .. as fathers like to do .. The son then chides the father and they make a bet .. to see who is going to be right .. at the expense of poor Job .. the buttt of a Father Son debate.

    Sataniel is depicted as subordinate to the Father .. since the word Subordinate was lost on you previously .. it does not mean equal to the Father .. it means subordinate to the Father .. Satan only acting according to God's will ... not stepping outside of the Boundaries the Supreme one has Set .. The Satan of Job is a divinity .. and has God Like Powers .. who carries a function as a tester .. We see a similar depiction of this tester in Mark .. when Jesus is Tested by Sataniel.. a testing that is dictated by the Father .. the Son of God testing the son of Man .. see what he is made of.

    So it is written .. So you shall be done :)
     
  16. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I see you overlook the fact that he made war against God and was cast out of heaven along with his followers. And that in the end he will be thrust down to hell. It seems to be all a joke to you. You give no honor or glory to God, and call Satan your friend. Your interpretation of scripture is warped to suit you, as if you are God. And the truth merely actors in a play on your stage for your entertainment. Believe what you will. But Gods warnings and promises will all come to pass.
     
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  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Satan does not make war against heaven in the book of Job - so it turns out that "Your interpretation of Scripture is warped to suit you as if you are God" - is you describing what you just did .. giving such a warped interpretation of Job that is completely false.

    After giving a completely warped and messed up interpretation of Satan in Job --trying to blame me for your failing . you cry out "You give no honor or Glory to God and Call Satan your Friend"

    More warped projection of your failings onto others. I did not call Satan my friend or infer that in any way .. and how would I give Glory to your God .. when you can't tell me who the God you wish to give Glory to is .. meaning that you are the one that gives no glory to God .. not knowing who God is.

    And what does this fallacious projection and strawman fallacy have to do with how Satan is depicted in Job .. and who-what the Israelites thought of Satan ?

    You call me a "friend of Satan" but, it is not me who tries to usurp the position of the Logos - and warps scripture by substituting the words of Jesus with made up man made dogma obtained from your Idol Martin. It is not me wandering dangerously close to the "Unforgivable Sin" ..your above comments a testament from a disciple of deception.

    Is it disingenuous oblivion or do you really not understand that Revelations has ZERO to do with the interpretation of Job - the Perspective of an Israelite which has ZERO to do with what I or You believe about Satan ..
     
  18. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it is a big joke to the not so gifted one. It's a joke now but there will be a day for the not so gifted one and others like him who are all in the same boat when the joke will be over, then comes God's Judgment and God won't be joking around.

    The giff in a post a while back mocked Lord Jesus as He was dying on the cross and so obviously the giff looked at the Lord's crucifixion as being all nonsense.

    We read in Scripture that the message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.

    Let me present this passage in Scripture titled, "The Wisdom of God" from 1 Corinthians 1:18-31.

    We Read in Scripture:

    The Wisdom of God


    18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. 19 As the Scriptures say,

    “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise
    and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”[a]

    20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.

    24 But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.

    26 Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy[c] when God called you. 27 Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. 28 God chose things despised by the world,[d] things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. 29 As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.

    30 God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. 31 Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the Lord.”[e] 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 NLT

    Footnotes
    a. 1:19 Isa 29:14.
    b. 1:24 Greek and Greeks.
    c. 1:26 Or high born.
    d. 1:28 Or God chose those who are low born.
    e. 1:31 Jer 9:24.

    Ok thanks Brother Injeun for your post and keep up the good work!
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
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  19. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Pauls words to the Corinthians testify to me that he was of God. To know that God lives is my truest knowledge and greatest treasure. Even though I am not much myself, I am confident in Gods promises.
     
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  20. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Book of Revelation in the Bible is just a copy of the Essene Book of Revelation written more than a century before Jesus and copied much later by John. It is adapted from OT scriptures pertaining to Israel. The Essenes use Mother Earth whereas John uses Jesus. It is in Revelation that Satan is called a dragon. As Giftdone says Satan tests Jobs faith. This is the Jewish belief. The reason Christians call Satan an enemy of God is because of the fanciful story in Matthews Gospel. It is simply that Jesus was tested in his faith, like all Jews.
    Mitt should realise that the testing of Jesus was nothing spectacular. Jesus, the preacher, was tempted as all Jews were. Jesus was born of HUMAN (Marys) flesh and therefore according the Christianity was not sinless (original sin). He also went through the waters of repentance when baptised by John.
    I've already shown the 'problems' with the Nativity stories which Mitt declines to answer.
     
  21. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    God is completely capable of causing a woman to conceive sans human intercession. I don't believe in original sin. To be born isn't a sin of which to repent. Sin is to go against conscience, God, and the light of truth, or to knowingly do wrong. Jesus never sinned. His baptism was imo an example to others. Having never sinned which he sealed with his death, he overcame the world. By taking his body back up, he overcame death. So he was the perfect sacrifice for mankind. As for Satan, he has inspired all evil by all people since the beginning of mankind according to the degree that men love evil. Satan's end is certain. Ours is up to us. God has provided the way for our retrieval thru Jesus Christ.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and doesn't matter to the Question of Satan in Job .. the question of "What did the Israelites think" - What was Their Perspective ? Revelation had no part of this perspective .. so don't matter who wrote it :)

    “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise
    and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.


    The above is a recipe for the Moron .. and I don't think God is the author of Moronicity .. but this was written by a man .. these are not the words of Jesus .. written by a man who wrote other really dumb things. Paul wrote some good things as well .. but this wasn't one of them .. but either way doesn't support your case in any case.

    What Message From the Cross ? and how did I mock this message ? . .or Jesus ? This is a falsehood on your part .. deceit your only tool these days it seems .. desperate to demonize the messenger . . because you can't handle the message.

    You are the one who mocks Jesus .. by claiming Jesus is "The Father" that it was the God whome you claim to believe in but are ashamed to name that was hanging there. .. and you blasepheme in general .. known as "Lying for Jesus" .. spreading deceit in the name of our Lord.

    You then blaspheme a 3rd time -- pretending you are the arbiter of who makes it through the gates .. at the same time contradicting yourself.. as you don't believe in Judgement .. instead you supplant the words of Jesus .. (the unforgivable sin) with man made lies from Idol Martin.

    You don't believe in Judgement -- believing you have a "Free Pass" through Judgement .. and you teach others this heresy .. mislead the little ones .. away from the light of Christ into the darkness of Idolotry and deception.

    Don't be tarring me with your blaspheming ways Brother Mitt -- I want none of that around my neck on Judgement Day.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  23. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Everything Paul said is true and in harmony with the holy spirit and knowledge of God. The reason that you don't know this is because you don't know God and are not of Gods spirit. You esteem yourself and are brimming with accusations and judgment. But you know nothing. As proof, you judge even an Apostle of Jesus Christ as if you are God and corrector of falsehoods, even while in the act of establishing or stating falsehoods yourself. I don't know if you are jealous of those who love God, or you are being defensive for the sake of your own guilt. But we aren't your judges or betters that you should harbor animus or envy towards us. God is your judge.
     
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  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Shut up already .. what is this mindless nonsense .. first you claim that the Bible is worthless - now you claim it is 100% god breathed .. but, at the same time have no idea who this God is.

    Then you try to elevate Paul as if he is divine .. and unfallable .. because he is an "Apostle" .. someone who claims to be a Christian and had a vision such as yourself .. and somehow I am Not of God's Spirit for pointing out that one of these Chrisians said that we should not rebel against Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot .. or anyone in authority because God is guiding their actions.

    Bue even in this I did not Judge Paul .. just stated the obvious fact that - like many Christians - got something wrong .. even though he had good intentions.

    You then falsly claim I satated a falsehood .. but do not state what that falsehood was such that I have no ability even to defend this false accusation. Is this pile of deceit the actions of one in harmony with the Holy Spirit and knowledge of God ? I think not .. more like dancing with the devil .. then trying to project your woeful actions onto others.

    "You don't know God - And Are Not of Gods Spirit" - what a mindless trope from the fellow who rejects the Bible and can not tell us the name of the God of the Bible.

    Who is the one who doesn't know God Injun .. Who is the one not of God's spirit ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2023
  25. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In your opinion.

    Jesus never sinned? 33 years? of life as a human being? You know this despite only knowing a fraction of his life.
    His Baptism was an example of what? In being baptised in front of others he was acknowledging his repentance. Either that or making a show of things.
    If you don't need a doctor you don't go to see one.

    What is interesting about the Gospels are the stories given of Jesus when no-one was actually present. 40 days (Biblical long time) Jesus was ALONE in the desert with no food, 'tempted' by Satan. And yet the details are given us in the Gospels. In Gethsemane he was alone yet we know how he prayed. His tomb was guarded by Temple Guards and yet his earthly body disappeared.

    "I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name." Revelation 3:8
    Behold I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that no man may take thy crown. v 11.
    2000 years later and the Church at Philadelphia is no longer.

    The early church believed, because of the words put in Jesus mouth, that Jesus would return quickly. He didn't. So Christianity still waits and claims 2000 year old words.
     

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