Universal Basic Income again

I disagree but time will show us who's right on that.

 

Who said anything about "no regulations"?

That's why capitalism encourages competition. Competition is a good thing. Most of these big companies started out small and competed their way to the top and are now being competed with by smaller companies.

. How exactly does that happen? Walmart et al sell for less so your neighbors can spend less to live their lives.

 

If the govt provides 85% of your needs and you don’t have to really work, what reinforcement and motivation do you have to work 40hrs to get a little more?

its why we have welfare queens. They game the system just enough and never have to work. Why should they? Now just put EVERYONE on welfare??? Sorry. UBI. Nope. Work or fail. You don’t get to exist on the backs of others. SOMEONE has to grow the food. Deliver goods. Clean hotels. Empty the trash. Take care of the power grid. Defend the country. Police the populace. People have to WORK. Those that choose not to don’t DESERVE ANYTHING!

 

The only thing that results in info

Oh, I agree about the incentives. I'm just following the money. Redistribution does not introduce net monetary increase. It just moves money from one person to another.

 

I looked through the comments, and I noticed that no one took a stab at what a UBI would actually cost, so I decided to give it a shot.

To do that I made some assumptions:

1) The average Social Security monthly payment is close to $2000, so that will be the UBI.

2) I excluded people 65 and older because they can receive Social Security. This group is 16.8% of the population.

3) I excluded people under the age of 18, 22.1% of the population.

So that leaves 61.1% of the population who would be receiving the UBI.

Currently, we pay 12.4% of wages (half paid by employers) to provide Social Security payments to roughly 16.8% of the population.

The 61.1% of the population who would be receiving the UBI is 3.6 times larger than the 16.8% of the population receiving Social Security.

This means that we can calculate that, to provide a UBI to that 61.1% of the population, we can multiply 12.4 X 3.6 = 44.6. So we would need a payroll tax of 44.6% to cover the 61.1% of the population getting the UBI. We still also be paying the 12.4% we give to Social Security.

So the total payroll tax would be 44.6% + 12.4% = 57%. Of course, that figure doesn’t include state and federal income taxes and property taxes.

Another way to look at the cost of this is that our population is around 325 million. 61.1% of that is around 198 million.

So to calculate how to give them $2000 per month and determine the yearly cost …

198 million X 2000 X 12 months = $4.76 trillion.

If we decide the UBI is only half that much then we wind up with a cost of $2.38 trillion.

That’s a lot of money.

 

I would rather my tax dollars be spent on something like UBI than on the perpetual wars brought under fraud that is our status quo for 70 years.

 

Give free money to bums at MY expense AND have a foreign nation take us over? Wow.

 

No it doesn't.

 

Nope, his money.

 

Then why do most stores offer huge varieties of products - 30 ft of toilet paper sure sounds like competition to mean as does dozens of brands of automobiles, phones, TV's, etc. New companies starting up every week. Dude that's the definition of competition.

 

And the corps all make agreement with each other.

 

Going by your own math, at $500/mo it costs $1.2 trillion.

Someone on here, in the past thought we made $4 trillion in tax revenues, but they didn't take into account the Trump tax cuts so that the US Government only takes in $2 trillion in tax revenue. It seems to me that if we let the Trump tax cuts expire in 2025, then we have all sorts of tax money available to spend.

 

Are you trying to imply that the Trump tax cuts ended up cutting tax revenues in half?

 

Doing some research, only the income tax revenue was about $2 trillion, not the whole of the tax revenue, which is about $4 trillion. I was wrong.

 

Life should not be about working. Life should be about self realization and personal fulfillment. We have been conditioned to think we need to work cradle to the grave, in order to support the massive machine that keep the elite at the top. Our true purpose is so obscure to most that when they have extra money, they spend it on dumb ****, because they have been conditioned that way.
The only reason why we are still using petroleum based energy is to support the fantasy that cradle to grave work is normal. One day in the near future we will realize how much we have been brainwashed to think this way, when there is more than enough energy for everyone to live however they wish.
Fear-based thinking by elites have kept these energy sources under wraps, so they can stay at the top of human society while we all work like idiotic ants. It won't last.

 

"All sorts of tax money available"? Huh? Do away with the military? Mothball the ships, tanks and people? No more White House? No more Supreme Court? No more Congress? No more Dept of agriculture? No mor Dept of Education? No more IRS? No More FBI? No more CIA? No more FDA? No more FCC? No more nuthin but free moneyt for irresponsible bums too lazy to earn their own way in life? Living off the labor of OTHERS?

 

Nonsense - they're in fierce competition.

 

You can not guarantee a minimum basic income unless you can guarantee a minimum amount of production along with it. And of course you can't guarantee production output without guaranteeing input- through enslavement.

 

Actually, the government brings in a total of around $4.9 trillion, but that includes $1.48 trillion in payroll taxes which are dedicated to Social Security and Medicare. Personal income taxes, corporate income taxes, and "other" bring in about $3.4 trillion. I got those numbers from this link: https://www.statista.com/statistics/216928/us-government-revenues-by-category/

Also, with regard to the Trump tax cuts, the federal government almost always brings in more revenue year over year. In 2011, the federal government revenues were $2.3 trillion. In 2021, they were $4.05 trillion. But before you think the government has plenty of money to spend, keep in mind that we always spend more than we take in. In Fiscal Year 2022, the shortfall was $1.4 trillion. So if the end of the Trump tax cuts will mean more revenue for the government, the first thing they should do is to balance the budget.

And finally, if we were to have a UBI, it would have to make sense. 1) It should be paid for with real revenue, not deficit spending. 2) It should not be given to people who don't need it. 3) Homeless drug addicts should not get it. All they will do is pass it on to the drug cartels. I don't want my tax money given to the cartels. 4) It should not be given to jail and prison inmates. Their needs are already taken care of by taxpayers. 4) It should benefit the working poor.

I think a better way to benefit the working poor is to have no income taxes levied under a certain income threshold, with higher thresholds for having dependents.

 

You're falling into the trap of the sentiment that a UBI should only be for the working poor. That's because many people think that the working poor are needy, and they are, and that's why we have welfare benefits, but that's a cheap cop-out to prevent addressing social issues that cause the working to become poor. And high-income inequality is a sign of end-stage capitalism.

 

There's no legitimate constitutional authorization for instituting UBI. Perhaps an amendment is in order?

 

Oh, you mean like social security? They take all your stuff and give you somebody else's sxxx.

 

Well, I think I have shown you that a UBI for all would require massive tax increases or suicidal deficit spending. And if you're concerned about income inequality, it would make sense to not give a UBI to people who don't need it, as I suggested.

I think addressing social issues that cause working people to be poor is a worthy discussion, but I don't think a UBI is the answer to those problems.

 

Balderdash.

Social issues can't be 'fixed' by money. No amount of money is going to change someone's perspective on taking responsibility for their actions, caring about others, and taking their stewardship of the planet seriously. No amount of money is going to change someone who doesn't understand that skin color doesn't matter, education doesn't make you intelligent, and every person has an equal value.

Worrying about what someone else earns is such a well engineered social wedge. Envy and jealousy are control monsters, and those that keep tweaking those strings are the only winners. The only thing one should be worrying about is if they themselves are doing what is necessary to satisfy their needs. And knowing the difference between need and want is a core basis in understanding that.

UBI is a pathetic attempt at wealth redistribution with a pat on the head for those who are paying in. Nothing more.

 

I didn't say a word about having a foreign nation take us over, not a word. YOU said that spontaneously, and that is a Freudian slip on your part, suggesting you know your chosen position is impossible to defend.