I don't get Israel's plan so far...

No it's about a solution that allows both to exist. Ideally Egypt would take it over and manage it responsibly. You know, other muslims, rather than living under an oppressive and hated adversary. Under this arrangement, extremism goes down, and where extremism happens, you have a more responsible muslim entity (egypt) helping to deal with it. Of course, Egypt may not want to do this, but with wisdom they would see it's better than a region at war.

 

I don’t have any conclusion. I just want to know - you advocating to save the innocent lives of Palestinian, are you considering saving innocent lives of Jews? If Israel turn on water, turn on lights and stop bombing, will Hamas stop killing Jews?

 

No, and it will be a problem for quite some time. Hamas has played their hand. They will not be able to surprise Israel with another October 7 style attack. The Gaza border security will be drastically increased, preventing a similar attack. Then the long healing process needs to start, which may take generations. But it needs to come from a place of truly treating the Palestinians as equals, not as a second class nuisance. That is the only way to avoid future massacres, and the only way to keep this conflict from escalating into a larger regional war. Continuing how they are now will almost guarantee this spreads, and will likely then drag us into the fight and cause US sons and daughters being killed. And for what? It will just be fueling the hate that guarantees it all continues.

I think that can all be avoided by showing a little humanity and mercy to the civilian populations.

 

No, but I don't see how those measures are critical for killing Hamas. It kills indiscriminately. Frankly, probably kills Hamas less than regular civilians because Hamas was prepared and armed.

 

It’s seem only West wants Two state solution. Majority Palestinian don’t want it. Majority Jews don’t want two state solution ( if Jerusalem is divided) , Arab Leage ( don’t want two state solution.

Only the western countries sitting thousands of miles away want the solution.

And we wonder why it doesn’t work.

 

When their preferred solution involves killing or displacing the other side, it's not a solution that is feasible or morally permissible. In emotional fights between hated enemies, an outside observer often is exactly who sees what the rational solution is. Yeah, maybe both fighters want the other one to die, but that's not acceptable.

 

Those civilians allow for Hamas to be in power. I hold as much regard for them as they held for the thousands of Israelis they killed. No ceasefire has ever been held to by Hamas. They want the fight. Every time they start it by launching attacks on Israel… Again… and again… and again… why should Israel not want to wipe them off the map?

If Mexico kept on launching rockets at us and was ran by the same people launching the rockets would you negotiate or attack? Just the rocket launching would want me to attack them. But beheaded women in our streets would definitely be the deal breaker. I’m on Israel’s side 110%

 

Hamas would not have the support of the civilians in an Israeli city. Palestinian civilians are not innocent bystanders.

 

Again you have not provided any solution to stop Hamas. All your solutions are how to save innocent lives for Palestinian people. That is admirable because you want to save innocent lives.

But

You have ZERO solution to save innocent lives for People of Israel.

 

All supplies end up with the terrorists. They launch attacks from areas surrounded by children to draw fire so they have images to use to sell Jew hate.

Israel was caught off guard and lost innocent lives. Terrorists targeted women and babies, then ran to hide behind women and babies. Israel is not targeting civilians. They give warning, but hamas does not allow people to leave so they have human shields or images they can use to sell more Jew hate.

 

Opinion noted, but not shared. We'd still be fighting Nazi's if our hands were tied as you suggest. I'll readily admit war is ugly, but complaining about your opponents tactics after you perpetrate an attack against unarmed civilians, is the height of mendacity.

 

Here is the problem with people who ask Bibi N to stop bombing , turn on lights, turn on gas , and let the UN truck to enter in Gaza

They think Hamas is some Align from MARS with horn suddenly came to earth and from Gaza they are firing rockets toward Israel.

Hamas is not align in Palestine. Hams is the son of the “innocent mother they are worried about” , Hamas is the brother of “15 years old boy they want Israel to turn on water” , Hamas is the husband of “ 22 years pregnant woman” they want Israel to turn on lights so she can get her treatment. Hamas is the father of “3 months old baby” killed by Israel bombing.

Hamas is the Government of Palestine elected by Palestinian people.

 

@LiveUninhibited's comment underscores Israel's problem with Hamas.

Egypt and Jordan indicate they won't accept Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza. It appears as though Israel has 5+m Palestinians on their hands permanently.

 

For smaller scale terrorist attacks in the past, Mossad would identify anybody involved in it and assassinate them, sometimes years later. Hamas should be taken down like a criminal organization, not like an enemy state with total war on civilians.

But for the longer term, the solution has to involve making gaza not a part of the same country as israel.

 

You fight against the country that supports them essentially taking away the revenue stream. Palestinians have made a career out of being unwelcome in any other Muslim country they're not taking refugees.

This to me is rather odd if you know any Muslim people you'll know they're very hospitable.

 

Declare Palestinian protectorates in the West Bank and Gaza. Tell the Palestinians the protectorate status may not be permanent, but for now they won't be allowed to build up a military force. Israel will begin with a inspection program to make certain Hamas won't be using the protectorates as launching pads for rocket or other attacks on Israel.

 

This reminds me of the argument that the cop should have just winged the gunman, instead of shooting for center mass. An argument made from a point of ignorance.

 

Not a great analogy considering that shooting center of mass is killing the perpetrator. No, this is more like cops firebombing the gunman's neighborhood instead of shooting the gunman.

 

What I don't get (maybe I do) is, why are y'all defending terrorists?

 

What are the better ways?

 

Actually it's more about thinking there might be another way to defeat terrorists rather than killing every person in their neighborhood. It's disliking the level of collateral damage.

 

Bonk....this is like bombing the neighborhood that is sheltering thousands of shooters.

 

They could give civilians, corridors of safe passage. Israel hasn't done this AFAIK, only allotted a couple of 3 hour windows of safety. The IDF has also reportedly blown up civilian convoys, trying to escape. If you surround a house, and call to the non combatants to exit before your forces storm the building, you don't expect the people to need escape through a hailstorm, of your own ammunition.

Also, Israel should not have cut off the water to the population. Dehydrating them, not only threatens their lives, but does not leave them in the ideal condition, for fleeing on foot, with their children, elders, and any possessions, in the Mediterranean weather. That is without even considering that the people have not likely been sleeping well, either, with 'round the clock bombing raids. Food has also, thanks to Israel, been in short supply.

Some do not want to leave, because they fear not being allowed back (& so losing their homes, and everything in them). Perhaps Israel could guarantee the refugees, they would be permitted, afterward, to return? For others, it may be impossible for them to leave, because they have been injured in the bombing raids, which had begun so swiftly, & included so many residential buildings. Or perhaps they have other medical complications (which situation is not improved, by Israel's choking off of medical supplies).

Additionally, there are not, AFAIK, sufficient places, outside of the war zone, for the people to stay, after their escapes. Or adequate allowances made to supply for these people's basic needs. It is a great task, to care for so many-- it would make the job easier, if Israel allowed in aid organizations, which want to help with this.

The Palestinian population was caught as much off guard, by the Hamas attack, as was Israel. Instead of trying to facilitate a Palestinian exodus, which is not a 24 hour operation, Israel only issued a short warning, and since, seems to have mostly left citizens to their own devices, to find a way out.

 

My guess is that there is a lot of backroom efforts to buy the hostages back and for Israel to be restrained until they do. Once the hostages are safe, Israel will then be under less pressure domestically to act and more pressure internationally to be tempered. Of course eliminating hamas will never happen. It is just a matter of putting a lid on the grease fire to keep the whole house from burning down.

 

The WW2 Doctrine, or Sherman Doctrine, is the best way to defeat the terrorists.

You didn't see much terrorism after The Civil War, or WW2.