Trump ordered to pay over $350M for business fraud

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Yes, I know they're words out of his own mouth. And Engoron stating that Trump overvalued by 2,300% compared to the tax appraiser's value does NOT mean he thinks that Trump's value should be 0% higher. For example, faced with a different value he might say "It's overvalued by 30% compared to the tax appraiser - and I have no problem with that". After all, most know that market values are typically some percentage points higher than assessed values. It's normal. What's he's communicating here - the point he is making - is the enormity of this specific overvaluation. Or do you think market values are ordinarily 2,300% higher than tax appraiser values?

Shubin's testimony was ruled to have no evidentiary value because he's not permitted to draw legal conclusions in court. Regardless, it's absolutely the case that a conservation easement runs in perpetuity. It's required by the IRS in order to get the tax benefit.

The bar on development was obviously not retrospective - it applies to the future - so I have no idea why you point out that Mar-a-Lago's already developed. What it means is no subdividing, building, remodelling, and so on and so forth. The owner and any future buyer must take it "as is" and keep it "as is", including the restriction to club use.

Yes, lots of "valuations" out there. Trump cannot be valued with residential comparables because it cannot be sold as a residence. It's an ongoing business, a club, with $25 million annual revenue. Sure, someone might pay over the odds for it? But only to a point. And that point is not likely to be $500,000,000.

 

Yeah, because you scored major internet points in this thread!

The libruls are vanquished!

 

I heard my lefty friends tell me this is a clear case of Trump overstating Maralago's value, yet no lefty can actually give us a real value of the property? Why is that?

 

So, by you own admission, a bench trial was legally and properly conducted, at the request of the AG. Thanks for ending you garbage claim.

Mar A Lago - I'll defer to the actual decision, which now a matter of record and fact, to refute your irrelevant deflection:

"In 1995, Donald Trump signed a “Deed of Conservation and Preservation” in which he gave up
the right to use Mar-a-Lago for any purpose other than as a social club (the “1995 Deed”).
In 2002, Donald Trump granted a conservation easement to the National Trust for Historic
Preservation and signed a deed in which, in addition to conveying the rights to develop or use
Mar-a-Lago for any purpose other than a social club, the Deed further “limits changes to the
Property including, without limitation, the division or subdivision of the Property for any
purpose, including use as single family homes, the interior renovation of the mansion, which
may be necessary and desirable for the sale of the property as a single family residential estate,
the construction of new buildings and the obstruction of open vistas.” NYSCEF Doc. No. 1531
at 25-26 (emphasis added).

In exchange for executing the 2002 Deed, in which he gave away, in perpetuity, the right to
develop or use the property as a single-family residence, Donald Trump paid significantly lower
property taxes on Mar-a-Lago. PX 1730; TT 3533-3535.

McConney had in his possession, since at least 2011, a copy of the 2002 Deed, restricting the use
of Mar-a-Lago as a single-family residence. TT 773-775; PX 1013; DX 360. McConney was
also aware, when he prepared the SFCs supporting data, that the entire basis of the valuations of
Mar-a-Lago rested on the premise that it could be sold as a private residence to an individual.
Each and every year, he valued Mar-a-Lago as if it could be sold as a single-family residence,
notwithstanding the deeded prohibitions against such use in perpetuity. TT 759, 775.
Further, when Patrick Birney took over for McConney in preparing the valuations for the SFCs,
Weisselberg and McConney both concealed from Birney the 1995 and 2002 deeds. TT 1258-
1259. When valuing Mar-a-Lago on the SFCs from 2016-2021, McConney and Weisselberg
selected comparables for Birney to use that were exclusively for private residences. TT 1248-
1256, 1268-1282; see, e.g., PX 3026.

There is no legal gray area surrounding the permanent nature of the deed restrictions. PX 1013.

Accordingly, there can be no mistake that Donald Trump’s valuation of Mar-a-Lago from 2011-
2021 was fraudulent."


Since I've been right on everything I've posted to refute your propaganda and false statements, I'm not going to bother with 40 Wall street.
It's enough that the false SFC's list include an operating profit on that property when it was actually losing money.

You showed what you always do, repeat MAGA propaganda and ignore facts and reality.

BTW, how much have you given to the Orange Stain's GOFUNDME to pay the $355 Million penalty ?

 

Your article. What is the point?

 

I use pictures to help tell my argument to the immature.

 

Riiiiiiiight. Lefties "what" to be lawless dictators. The right is soooooooo righteous. The Republican Party and the whole political right loves to declare that they are the "law and order party". They are sooooo faithful to the rule of law. They treasure the Constitution, unlike those lawless lefties.

So when judges throw their attorneys out of court because of having no evidence and Republicans in Congress declare Trump as an insurrectionist who is trying to stage a coup, and known and established conservative republican journalists and talking heads and pundits and political strategists all say Trump illegally retained classified documents and even tried to hide them from the FBI, and juries find Trump lied for financial advantage on IRS documents that inflated or understated the value of his properties, these republicans and courts and the FBI all suddenly become "RINOs" and the Constitution suddenly "doesn't apply" and attorneys are "bought out by democrats". In this way the right gets to declare they honor law and the Constitution while trashing law and the Constitution.

 

This ruling has nothing to do with the rule of law. This is exactly the opposite - abuse of law.

 

It is, literally, the application of NY law.

 

Ohhh, good argument. I'm convinced.

 

Never will happen because there is a ton of evidence against crimes and fraud against Trump. All you got is suspicion and that's not enough. Hell, 17 felony counts against Trump org, guilty on all of them,. the jury said. What are the odds Trump is guilty of same? On the org he heads, which was convicted by a jury and it's CFO went to prison, what are the odds Trump is also guilty?

If a criminal or fraudster is prosecuted, if he is also a political candidate, the criminal process takes precedence.

If there is evidence of a crime and/or fraud, there is no 'politics'. To claim so, is, itself, politics.

but there has to be evidence and there is plenty of it. So your point is moot.

 

I'm not an appraiser in FL. It's not my job, but you should feel free to read what the court wrote. Nobody at this forum needs to prove a thing to you; that's why they built the courthouse.

 

The law only makes sense as a consumer fraud law. DB is a financially sophisticated lender. The prosecutor has abused the lae for political purposes. New York will suffer economic damage due to this ruling.

 

This thread will continue to grow. Trumpies will continue to insist that they're magically correct.

 

Ahh, but there is. it's 'the people'.

Look at the charging document, it says 'The People of NY v Donald Trump'.


Executive law 63(12) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Executive_Law_§_63(12)

Allow me to explain it to you, for your edification, now please pay close attention.

When the state charges someone for counterfeiting, who complains? Usually no one.

When you litter on the highway, who complains? Usually no one. You will be cited if caught.

If you live in San Diego, and someone in L.A. is driving 50 mph in a 25 mph zone, are you harmed? Is anyone harmed if he didn't get into an accident?

No, but you will be cited.

Not all crimes have immediate victims, but the community is harmed, as a whole.

See? one person doing it no one will feel it, but if every one did, the community will feel it's collective harm, so there is harm, and that is the fact of the matter, hence it is against the law.

It is the reason the plaintiff on the indictment says

" The People of New York v Donald J.Trump."

'the people' are harmed. Their 'voice' is the NY AG, Leticia James who represents them.

Capiche?

I didn't think so.

 

No magic about it.

 

No, it will benefit by keeping other operators honest.

 

Yes, tRaitor tRump abused the law and now he will have to pay the fine.

 

You're missing the point,. Sure, the real determinant of what a property is worth based ultimately on what someone is willing to sell, and what someone is willing to pay, That cannot be known until it happens.

But, until that time and place, a value must be assigned for bank loans and tax purposes.

So, what value is Trump paying taxes on on Mar A Lago? I gaurantee you that value is a lot close to the assessor's value (based on the deed restricted value) than his hyperbolic value, and if that is true, and it is true, the he can't be bloviating on bank loan applications.

But, in fact, that is precisely what he did.

Of all the properties he bloviated on, Engoron calculated that the market was deprived of $355 million, this is all accounted for in the document, and so, that is what he must pay, which is what he would have paid had he not lied in the first place, in terms of interest, spread over years. So, in essence, the crows are coming home to roost, as they should.

You can't tell a bank your property is worth X, and tell the IRS (prop tax collector) and/or insurance co. it is worth Y.

If Trump and told both the IRS and the BANK it was X, and X only, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

When you can find the facts, data, and testimonies, you let me know.
All you have are your unsupported opinions and overwhelming bias.

You ignore the actual sworn testimony or ANYONES credentials of people you have no clue about yet blatantly you know more than they do about real estate values in Palm Beach, The contract Trump signed with the country, even more than the lawyers who testified.
Laughable really

You try and split words into different meanings. Why are you even arguing about a judge who claims Trump overestimated his property values by 2300%, then try and claim the value that he used, isn't what he's claiming? Then its 2300% of what number? Please, we are all dying to know this.

 

Nope, not even close.

Forbes August 2022
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danale...alm-beach-estate-under-siege/?sh=ba3cb235bed5
The year Trump announced his presidential run, sales jumped to an estimated $22 million. They continued to climb to an estimated $29 million the following year.
One of the most valuable homes in the world.

That $500 million figure, absurd at the time that the Trump Organization proposed it, suddenly became somewhat reasonable. Real estate experts outside of Palm Beach guessed that the place was worth more than $200 million. Brokers on the island thought it could be worth far more, with the most aggressive estimate coming in at $725 million. When Forbes last valued the property in March, we went with a conservative $350 million.

If a 24,000 sq ft penthouse with no property sells for 240 million, then whats a 25 million dollar annual revenue generating 62,500 sq ft property with 17 beach front acres in Palm beach worth? 18-30 million as the judge claimed stating Trump over valued the property by 2300%?

And less we not forget testimony
A defence witness, Miami-based real estate lawyer John Shubin, testified on Tuesday that “there is absolutely no prohibition on the use of Mar-a-Lago as a single-family residence”. He noted that the property was simultaneously a club and Trump’s residence. Shubin also pointed to the 1993 agreement between Trump and the city that said Mar-a-Lago would revert to private residential use if the club were “abandoned”.

Palm Beach luxury real estate agents have told The Associated Press that the property would sell for $US300 million to $US600 million, and possibly $US1 billion or more if it sparked a bidding war among ultra-wealthy contenders.

Sorry, your judge is an idiot.

Which is why Truckers are abandoning NY right now by the thousands. Even Trucking companies are refusing to haul.
You now have huge investment bankers and investors walking pulling all their capital out of NY. No More Commercial real estate deals

Major investors pull business from New York City following Trump verdict
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ll-business-new-york-following-trump-verdict/
Prominent investors have signaled their intent to halt their business in New York following the $355 million verdict in former President Donald Trump’s civil fraud case.
Real estate mogul Grant Cardone announced on Tuesday that his firm Cardone Capital would no longer underwrite New York real estate, just days after Kevin O’Leary vowed to no longer invest in the state as a result of the verdict.

“Immediately discontinue ALL underwriting on New York City real estate,” Cardone ordered his firm in a post on X. “The risk outweigh the opportunities at this time. Recent political decisions will continue to deteriorate price and benefit states that don’t have these challenges. Focus on Texas & Florida.”


Is this what you wanted for NY while they are in an illegal migrant hell?

You lefties don't think much about your actions before giving any time for forethought.
(FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY)
You proved the nuclear option in the Senate to sit crazy Obama federal judges.
You were even told up front, and refused to listen.
And that cost you 3 justices on the SCOTUS in 1 single term.
Who do you think is the MOST important rulings for this country comes from and who controls it?

Now, with no forethought what so ever, you (and others like you) have cheered this judges idiocy loud and publicly.
And all of this because you hate one person so bitterly, more than you care about this country.
You will it burn down to get him.

(FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY)
Fraud charges against a leading presidential candidate with a bank that claims they were never defrauded?
(FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY)
Taking the 14th amendment out of context to remove the leading presidential candidate off the ballot
(FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY)
Raiding an ex presidents home for documents you already saw.
Then charge him with stealing documents
(FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY)
Having someone who was a Senator steal documents from the SCIF
But then determined he was too incompetent to stand trial while serving as president.
(FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY)
20 banks accounts found taking 24 million from adversarial foreign nationals and distributed to 9 family members of the president


And the left cheers it all on.
And voters are watching every minute of it.
Count on it.

 

Why not cheer for accountability? Why not be pleased about the rule of law?

"Waaaaah! Bbbbut Trump!" isn't a rebuttal.

 

The people of New York were not defrauded. Nobody was defrauded. It is politics and personal hatred. Get over it.

 

You're right. Magic won't save that **** argument. Engoron's decision is appellate proof.

 

Look at the statute. You're wrong.