When does one gain person-hood?

Oh, so now the new excuse for your lack of support is that someone else does not do it? Of course that is a lie, but even if you were right, that still remains a pathetic excuse for not being able to support your position. Then again, for you any excuse is a good one.

 

I would consider the baby/ fetus/ whatever an individual person whenever its body is able to support its own metabolism. Definitely not at conception, certainly before birth. The actual moment they become individuals would be different for each baby/ fetus/ whatever, but thats why I'm only pro choice through first trimester, or perhaps shortly after.

 

What's so special about supporting your own metabolism?

 

Being able to support an independent metabolism is often used as the definition of "living".

 

The problem is that you can not defend the foundation of your argument.

The only significant difference between a single celled zygote and any other human cell is DNA.

The difference in the DNA is that in the case of the zygote the program codes for creation of the human are active.

The process of creating a human is not a human.

You should try arguing that this process or "potential" is important.

For sure you would have more success.

 

So a sperm cell isnt "living"? Even so, what's so important about being alive?

 

A sperm cell is supporting its own metabolism.

The op asked at what point one gains person hood. To me that means when does it become its own independent life form. I would consider It its own individual life form once its able to support a metabolism and maintain homeostasis.

 

Fair enough.

Ok, then let me ask you this - what's your position on abortion?

 

Personally, I don't think I would encourage it if I was in such a scenario.

That being said, my morality shouldn't be enforced on anyone else, and if a woman feels an abortion is the right thing to do, she should have the option. I don't support legalizing late term abortions. Cut off at first trimester or maybe slightly after.

 

Where does this freedom to do whatever she thinks is right end? Can she kill a newborn? If not, why not?

 

Yes, the only thing that making abortion illegal will do is murder young women. Pro-lifers are really Pro-Murderers.

 

I didn't say they have the right to do whatever they want. I said they should have the right terminate an unwanted pregnancy, before it becomes a separate individual.

 

I like your style mate.

 

It ends where the baby has an interest - but that will ALWAYS be after birth.

 

Postpartum depression is common with both birth and abortion and can be treated in both cases.

 

REally, a sperm cell has its own metabolism?

 

Why? What makes the child in utero different from the child ex utero?

 

Another ridiculoulsy arbitrary and immeasurable threshold, great!

 

You're right about postpartum depression being common after birth, but it's not after abortion. Women most commonly feel relief.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/01/28/having-an-abortion-doesnt-lead-to-depression/

a new study shows it does not increase the likelihood of mental-health problems.Contrary to what some anti-abortion activists have claimed, women do not fall victim to depression or post-traumatic stress disorder after having an abortion, ...

What did raise the rate of psychiatric problems? Babies. Within a year after first-time mothers gave birth, seven per 1,000 women were treated for mental-health issues, in comparison to four per 1,000 before baby. (More on Time.com: Having Kids, Especially Young Ones, Ramps Up Depression)

That should hardly come as a surprise since the most common complication of pregnancy is post-partum depression

 

How is it arbitrary and how is it immeasurable?

 

A baby has his or her own organs that sustain the baby's life functions. A fetus does not.

 

Yes. Otherwise it wouldnt be able to do its job.

 

Beige able to use its own biological systems to remain alive. They certainly reach that point at sometime before birth, by its long after conception.

Can fetuses do any of this from conception?
-Digest their own food
-Circulate their own blood
-do they have a nervous system from the moment of conception?

Up to a point, the survival of the fetus require the direct interjection of the mothers metabolism. It isn't supporting a metabolism, the mother is, and isn't its own independent life form.

 

Provide us with the exact point in development (in measurable terms) that a fetus gains an interest in hos/her own being.

 

This is obviously incorrect, as Merck shows on its web site. Making up your nown definitions doesn't help your virtually non existant credibility PMS.