Why don't Liberals think that government should live according to their means?

Your right to a certain extent. Government has certain expenses that a house hold budget wouldn't have so there is a good chance that government would have to borrow sometimes to meet those expenses, such as war. But shouldn't we try and pay that off before adding billions or trillions more on it?

 

You'd think taxes would have obviously been raised by now.

 

Yes, they are paying it by printing it, and you might have noticed stories about nations running away from the dollar, trading in other currencies, the Chinese dropping American debt and not buying any longer, credit being downgraded most graciously by institutions that we own, most of our debt being held by our own central bank. You might have noticed, but this haas nothing to do with spending.

 

Raising taxes now with a sick economy would be the last thing we should do. Even if we went back and taxed the rich at 90% like we did in the 50.'s, we still haven't enough to pay our bills. Taxing the rich more will only cut investment in jobs and chase more away.



Shades of Ayn Rand, The Rich Are Leaving the U.S. in Greater Numbers




Normally averaging hundreds per year, last year the U.S. had almost 1,800 citizens renounce their citizenship and move overseas. The number of wealthy Americans dropping their citizenship has grown sevenfold in the four years since a whistleblower at UBS prompted a crackdown on tax evasion, according to a separate Bloomberg report.

The latest, Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin, stands to potentially save hundreds of millions of dollars by giving up his citizenship, and according to an immigration attorney and expert on citizenship matters, saving on taxes – especially capital gains duties – is usually the reason people make the decision.

John Dorrance III, the heir to the Campell’s Soup fortune, ditched his U.S. citizenship and moved to Ireland before selling his stake in the family business, according to Forbes.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ac2_1336836149&comments=1

 

The same could be said of cutting spending... but that's the American problem.

 

A big American problem is the rich are already leaving in numbers never seen before and we know why.

 

You do realize that if we erased the entire debt we would still have a deficit of around one trillion dollars? that's new debt.

If we got rid of everything but DoD, DHS, SS, and Medicare the deficit would still be around 400 billion.

We do not tax enough to pay for what we do.

 

We pay interest on our debt, which was fought against a few times. Revolutionary war comes to mind..oh wait, that was about TEA. YAH

We're paying to fight wars now to bring nations into a debt scheme that we fought against to establish a legit nation. The irony is unmatched.

 

And you could say the poor are suffering as well. But neither side wants to do anything. Oh well.

 

I do not understand your comment.


We do not tax at a high enough rate to pay for our government. It is necessary to raise taxes.

 

Taxes do affect our ability to compete in this global catastrophe of a system we operate under, just to get that out of the way.

Otherwise, you might want to look into the Federal Reserve and the fact that our government pays interest on the money they borrow, instead of doing what is constitutionally required of them, which is issue currency themselves without debt.

See that Iceland rebuked their "debt" and came to find that 90% of that "debt" was not owed by the people, but was taken on by their criminal banks.

 

Sure the poor is suffering but chasing the rich away isn't going to solve that problem. Jobs is the answer to bringing up the poor and we aren't doing enough to get jobs, just the opposite. We have the highest corporate tax in all of the industrial world. We bogg down business with regulations and make it difficult to have people even start a business.

 

I agree. Hell, I'd abolish the corporate tax. But I do acknowledge that taxes need to help.

 

First you have to define what "living within your means" is. What is too much debt for America and why?

 

You got a link for that?

All the rich people I know are staying put. Gates, Jobs, Buffet, etc seemed happy to live in America. You got proof for that statement or is it a LIE?

 

This thread is an example of why I don't spend much time here - nobody has studied Economics 101.

1. Markets don't remain "free" in economic terms without some form of regulation. Since we believe in democracy, we provide it through Government. There have been written rules governing markets since at least Thirteenth century England and probably thousands oif years before that. Look up the origin of the word "forestalling" if you want an example.

2. Asking for "free stuff" is a feature of human and corporate existence. It's called "rent seeking behaviour" and corporations do it more than ordinary people. Just ask the big banks who you bailed out.

3. Economics is not a morality play. It might give you great satisfaction to watch someone starve to death for their misdeeds, but it weakens the tribe. That is why I take food from you and give it to the starving. At least if they are alive we have the opportunity that they, or their children, will one day pay it back.

4. "Living within your means" is a great idea and ultimately it has to come to pass. The Keynesian idea is that expenditures balance out over the multi year business cycle. You borrow and spend when times are tough. You pay it back and save when times are good. It's a pity your Congress doesn't want to understand that. They spend like drunken sailors no matter what.

5. Governments print money ideally as fast as the rate of production increases, this is generally about 3.5% per annum. Govenrment gets to spend the new money first look up the term Seigneurage.

Can't be bothered educating economic illiterates any more

 

This is very true. However, in the US, the Govt has to "borrow" money to spend money instead of taking seigniorage of it. But all they do is borrow it from the banking system which simply creates it out of thin air. So in essence they do have seigniorage, but with it is attached an interest rate and debt which is the evolution behind how we control our monetary system.

So in reality the Govt has an infinite bankroll and can spend whatever they want, but the US does not allow interest free money... so every dollar in existence is backed by an interest bearing debt.

 

i've gone way past that

but, i agree with the gist of your argument

 

I think if you go back you'll see I gave a link. But here it is again. You should know by now, I don't lie.


Shades of Ayn Rand, The Rich Are Leaving the U.S. in Greater Numbers




Normally averaging hundreds per year, last year the U.S. had almost 1,800 citizens renounce their citizenship and move overseas. The number of wealthy Americans dropping their citizenship has grown sevenfold in the four years since a whistleblower at UBS prompted a crackdown on tax evasion, according to a separate Bloomberg report.

The latest, Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin, stands to potentially save hundreds of millions of dollars by giving up his citizenship, and according to an immigration attorney and expert on citizenship matters, saving on taxes – especially capital gains duties – is usually the reason people make the decision.

John Dorrance III, the heir to the Campell’s Soup fortune, ditched his U.S. citizenship and moved to Ireland before selling his stake in the family business, according to Forbes.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ac2_1336836149&comments=1

 

her fiction bears little resemblance to reality

is he an american?

won't he be paying even more taxes in ireland?

 

Because they think that most of the government waste is for the people and is not absolute waste and crony corporatism. Obama was going through that with a fine-toothed comb and he found nothing to cut. He's crying about cuts to future increases in spending. No republican except Paul is offering actual cuts to the budget, they pretend that cuts in increases is cuts.

They're all full of (*)(*)(*)(*)e. Their empire in DC is continuing to expand at an exponential rate, and everyone who supports it are just as full of (*)(*)(*)(*)e.

 

here's the thing about debt, you may be in debt, but you're still alive and can make money to pay it back, sometimes if you don't borrow the money to survive, you're dead

 

Because Republicans never increase the public debt?

And live the same way families do? So in other words you're actually for the government borrowing massive amounts of money and running up a debt.

 

For the same reason cons don't.....They are stupid.....If cons were serious about cutting spending they were cut military, which we pay more than any other program.

 

Easy

A family can't (legally) print currency when they need it, governments can... for social "justice"
A family can't collateralize the earning potential of every member in the family...including the unborn...for a loan, governments can...for social "justice"