Why Paul Ryan? He destroyed Obamacare in 6 minutes to Barack's face.

Costs haven't gone down. They are not expected to go down, either.

 

When did the cons develop their whiny victim mentality?

Before Obama was elected? After he was elected?


Whaaaaaaaa, the MSM is out to get us.

Whaaaaaaaa, quit attacking our religions.

I swear, you call liberals pansys, yet all I read here EVERYDAY is a con (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing and whining at ANYTHING, from the MSM to their religion. Please, grow a set.

 

@ the liberal whining professional

 

@ Ryan's shoe shine boy.

 

Just making observations. I wouldn't call it whining.

 

As I am observing the whining daily. Question, will you still whine if the GOP controls all three branches? Just curious.

 

Much of what he says is very much on point. He is right, the health care bill did very little to cut health care costs, which is among the 2 or 3 biggest issues facing this country. The bill will cost a lot of money. The bill is a big giant handout to insurance companies, and does little to help the average American. What he doesn't do, is explain HOW we will reduce costs. We all want to reduce costs, and there are many things which lead to high costs, but at the end of the day, capitalism and the profit incentive IS THE PROBLEM!! Capitalism and markets do many things very well, but profit seeking is what capitalist entities do. When you attempt to reduce costs, another way of saying that, is you are attempting to reduce profits for capitalistic health care providers. What incentive do those providers have to reduce costs? They have NO incentive at all. They have an incentive for people to get sick, stay sick, and to pay a lot of money to get better.

That is undeniable. Only people who close their eyes to reality will deny this clear incentive based analysis. So accepting this fact, how do we address the cost issue? It cannot be done by letting the market work, because market cannot solve this problem. So what do we do? If we actually instituted real government health care, meaning a single payer option, costs would decline drastically. A public option, would similarly reduce costs. However, people were opposed to the idea of government health care, ignoring the reality of it's benefits.

PS. Paul Ryan says they want people to make decisions, while Obama wants government. The reality is, they both want big hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, etc to make decisions and not government AND NOT PEOPLE. In that case, what is the difference? Both big business and government are a collection of people, organized in some bureaucratic fashion, making decisions for people they don't know. The only real difference is that insurance companies have an incentive to deny you coverage every opportunity they can(paying for your medical bills, reduces their profit margins), and government has no profit incentive, and therefore doesn't have the same negative incentive to deny you coverage. They also don't need to drive up costs to keep up profit margins. So government for all it's flaws and faults, is better equipped to deal with this issue than "people" which is another name for big corporate health care providers!!

 

I'm not whining now. Why so tense?

 

I'm a senior living in Florida. We KNOW that Ryan is not a problem. obamaTAX is the most ruinous danger Medicare ever faced. Liberals cannot face the FACT that obamaTAx is the worst legislation ever passed in USA history. But both independents and conservative do know how bad obamaTAX is. We also know that BOTH Medicare and Social Security WILL, not might, not could, WILL go broke in a few more years and that BOTH must be fixed NOW, not later. And we also KNOW that Ryan's plan does NOT touch the benefits of any Senior today. Ryan's plan, contrary to lying liberal propaganda, doesn't change anything for those seniors presently collecting benefits under Medicare. His plan is for the future. obamaTAX has already placed a LAW in effect that robs Medicare funding of BILLIONS, to give it away to people that have never PAID IN a penny. We are also aware that obama's "PAYROLL TAX HOLIDAY," is just another vote buying scheme that robbed $95 billion from the Social Security Trust Fund in 2011.

So wallow in your liberal bull(*)(*)(*)(*) and lies. The seniors know better.

 

Well Dan that is not exactly true. A part of the Ryan plan would be to repeal the Obamatax which would bring back the donut hole which would affect current seniors on medicare. They would be paying more for drugs under ryans plan. Ryan is coming to Florida but will be speaking at a community dominated by republicans. After Iowa he has been speaking at events where you need a ticket to get in to avoid hostile crowds like in Iowa. I am amazed at how the Republicans picked a candidate like Romney. And at ow Romney picked Ryan. It just shows you that Romney has not a clue as to the feel of the country. The only hope the republicans have is they have a lot of money. Lets see if they can buy their way into office. Even here in Indiana recent polls show donnally ahead in the race for the senate. And Indiana is pretty red. So good luck

 

The Donut hole applies to people, on medicare, that spend over $2800 on drugs. That is NOT out of pocket. Many generic drugs are now $4. But the supplier cost is $20. So the senior spent $4 but $20 goes to the Donut hole amount. Once a person exceeds $2800, they pay the costs up to $4550 and then the govt pays all but 5%. IF THAT PERSON IS NOT ON MEDICAID AND MEDICARE. How many people do you think that applies to? NOT very many. None on Medicaid/Medicare. None on welfare. No veterans. VA covers their RX without a donut hole.. I'm a senior with a bad heart. I take a slug of drugs each AM and PM. I don't even approach the donut hole. My wife a senior, no donut hole. both sisters seniors, one in end stage renal failure, no donut hole. Sister-in-law pancreatic cancer, no donut hole.

That would be obamaTAX. Coverage for problems that do not exist. And waste for problems that do exist. I posted this the other day, it needs posted again. This is the government and your health care.

"PUT THE GOVERNMENT IN CHARGE OF THE SAHARA DESERT, AND IN 5 YEARS WE WOULD HAVE A SHORTAGE OF SAND!" [MILTON FRIEDMAN]

You cannot name a government program where that has not be 100% true. How many BILLS has the CBO accurately projected their 10 year cost? In history, how many? The answer is easy. NONE. NEVER has a CBO's cost projection of a new law been accurate,,,,,,,,,,OR been higher than the resulting cost. NEVER!

obamaTAx is a NATION BUSTER! Already its gone from deficit neutral by the CBO to a cost of $2.7 trillion and a loss of 800,000 jobs, ALSO by the CBO. And they are still wild eyed optimists. It will easily exceed $7 trillion. And that is conservative. Medicare cost 1500 times the CBO's 'projection.'

Why does health care cost so much today?

MEDICARE!

Government interference in a business, always causes costs to skyrocket. ALWAYS!

Prior to Medicare, health care was not expensive for the common man. I was a common man back then.

To think obamaTAX will solve anything, make anything better or cheaper, is 100% delusional. The government has never in history been able to achieve that. And they won't start with a 2700 page bill with reference to an additional 100,000 pages.

Medicare, a relatively simple program compared to obamaTAX. Has at least 5 books of rules and regulations. EACH at least 6 inches thick. More than 150,000 pages of regulations for just Medicare. And they haven't even started writing the rules for obamaTAX.

 

So Dan you say you are a senior. May I ask if you are on medicare. If so what has been your experience Good? Bad?

 

My experience in all things in life has been excellent. Because I look into things, know the rules, and know what I'm doing.

Why is Medicare good? And why is Medicaid not so good? Medicare is OK because it rides on top of an existing fee for service, trillion dollar, private industry. But even Medicare is showing signs of problems. More and more doctors and institutions are refusing to take on a new Medicare patient. My cardiologist STOPPED taking new Medicare patients a week after my wife became a patient of his. Medicaid, health care for the poor, pays even less than Medicare and THOUSANDS more doctors refuse new Medicaid patients.

In most major medical insurance policies for you underage kiddies, you have a provider list. If you don't use a doc. or hospital on your provider list, you pay higher deductibles and higher co-pays. If a Doctor closes his practice to new Medicare patients, it is CLOSED. No higher co-pay. NO VISIT! My cardiologist is considered the VERY best in the area, by other medical people. Now A person just coming on Medicare CANNOT see him. And that list is growing, not shrinking.

And here is a little fact for you. The private fee for service industry that Medicare uses to piggyback can charge any amount they wish for treatment. The MARKET determines if they are charging too much. NO price controls in the private market.

Medicare, and Medicaid even worse, have VERY STRICT price controls, and over 150,000 pages of rules to follow to get paid those dramatically lower prices.

Cataract surgery for a 50 year old would be about $4000. per eye. The SAME doctor get about $1000. per from Medicare for a patient past 65. YET the cost per patient is thousands of dollars higher for Medicare patients than for people not yet 65. You can claim the older people cost more, and that is partially true. But Medicaid cost are even higher. So younger, but poor people, cost even more?

And what does Medicare actually cost me? First, I paid taxes into it all my working life. Many thousands of dollars that I could have invested. Next well over the 'normal' $100 per month comes out of my SS each month and the same amount for the wife. More thousands of dollars. Then I have a $150 dollar Part B deductible and if hospitalized, [Part A] I have an $1100.00 deductible per 60 day benefit period. Starts upon hospital release. Return to hospital 61 days later OR for a different problem, another $1100. Calendar year is not a factor. Also there is a 20% co-pay for all non in patient charges. That's not an excessive amount as it is 20% of the Medicare approved amount. Using the cataract surgery example above. A major medical policy with a 20% co-pay would be .20 X$4000=$800. Medicare .20 X $1000.= $200. But the major medical policy has a "stop loss" amount. If your stop loss is $4000. And you have $100,000 in combined doctor and hospital bills with a 20% co-pay you'd only pay $4000, instead of $20,000. With Medicare if you had $25,000 in doctor bills [hospitals costs are separate] you'd pay $5,000.00. $50,000 in doc bills, $10,000. THERE IS NO STOP LOSS.

Yet cost per patient for Medicare with the govt carrying the bulk of the load is about $11,000 per year, per patient. And the US cost for ALL patients is about $8000. per patient per year.

obamaTAX, is 100% CERTAIN to drive the cost per patient of ANY age well over $12,000. per patient per year. $25,000 cost per patient, per year under obamaTAX would not be surprising in the least. The CBO's estimated cost of Medicare was underestimated by a factor of HUNDREDS. The original 10 year estimated cost was $65 million dollars [such innocent numbers] The actual cost was in the billions.

 

On the one hand you complain that doctors are stopping taking on new patients because they don't get paid enough. Then you complain because they will get paid more under the ACA. So which one do you want?

 

Whats the point? What gravitas? Obama listened politely and patiently has Ryan ranted on. Also your cowardly tape stops short before we can hear what Obama's response was.

 

That's a simpleton question with a very simple answer. They will not get paid more. The "Doctor Fix" Cutting Doctor reimbursements by 21% was passed years ago and never implemented. ObamaTAX claims that it will be implemented [IT WILL NOT] and that the "Doctor Fix" will save over $200 billion. They love that so much they count it TWICE. So a $200 billion "savings" that hasn't happened and won't happen, results in a $400 billion cost saving for obamaTAX.

I don't know how many times I will have to ask this question of liberals, but I never get an answer.

How many US Federal programs that involved the govt in business has costs come down? Or supply increased? Or service improved? Or quality increased?

Answer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NONE!

 

So then then the Ryan/Romney medicare scam is doomed to fail because it does involve private insurance companies. Interesting point you make.

 

Is this more liberal fantasyworld nonsense. There is nothing I've said for or against private insurance.

But of course, another liberal that completely ignores the pertinent question. What successful govt program has ever intruded into private business?