I wonder why this is happening in a Chritstian country?

Didn't we already discuss the fact that since he specifically knowingly contradicted his own statement, he didn't argue the point the claim he did, he only criticised your logic in arguing similarly?

I tried the searching stuff on this website, it will not show posts, only threads, and I'm not really willing to spend more than four minutes going through threads doing someone else's research. If you have examples, I'm sure you'll be willing to part with them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that Bow to the Robots have not made the claims you claim he has, I'm only saying that I'd like the quotes to believe it and that they should be provided, not just some vague reference to "go get them yourselves".

I have no doubt, and I have repeatedly stated that I do have no doubt, that atheists make those claims. Finding one of those is a no more remarkable feat than finding the WBC on the internet. You will notice that I do not blame you, or Christians in general for the actions/opinions of the WBC, I merely point out that finding controversial thoughts on the internet isn't rocket science and that your feat of doing so proves little but a point which I already agree with you on.

 

I believe the point that the specific recommendation in the aftermath of the church scandal was tried in the French court system and has little or nothing to do with the level of religiousity in the populace. But if you ignore that point ...

It will show posts, I have done it several times.

The problem is why bother wasting the time anymore? You do it, and the people still deny what it clearly says anyway. And this one if kind of a no brainer Swenn, we are are talking about the atheist reaction to the church abuse scandal ... and no atheist apparently said anything at all during the abuse scandal? Really?

You will forgive me for thinking that goes into the same 'need to prove' pile as proving that grass is green.

Once again, church abuse scandal and atheism. He could also have clarified his position on the subject, which he did ... he made several comments, repeatedly, dodging exactly the issue presented by doing it. In three separate instances he slammed the Catholic Church and made light of the abuse in this and another thread ... while denying doing it.

And that is the problem Swenn. Atheists say a damb lot of things, but when confronted they deny it. Its ALWAYS some other atheists. Its like all the atheists who say they never go onto American Atheists ... and then a week later are practically ripping things off the site.

Debate works best, if at all, when people are honest enough to defend a position.

 

Dusty said,

I believe the Word of God. I believe that if we follow what Christ said…no one would hold someone in bondage or slavery.

This is the most hilarious statement I about every heard. You liberals are a hoot. You have no idea even what morals are about? You don't believe in right or wrong….whatever floats your boat is great with you. Our country is in moral decay and you think its great. High rates of sexual disease….caused by what? High rates of violence? Drugs? Drinking? Child abuse? Rape? Abortion? Caused by what? Religion? God?

No caused by people like you who just don't care about right and wrong…about decency. You mock God…the traditional family….the country…you name it. If it isn't deviant…its not cool.

I know the opposite of moral…….people who hold positions like you do.

Your a moocher and whiner….and a blamer. Everything that is wrong in society is done by people of faith so says you.
You would think the Ten Commandments would be bad. You base your life opposite of them. Killing is good…as is adultery…as is stealing….coveting….etc.

 

Hmmm .. Looking at history .. there has been no more violent group in all of known history than Christianity.

More of the same should be no suprise.

 

I'm not sure I understand your phrasing. That most things, rape culture, efficiency of judicial systems and so on has little or nothing to do with the religiosity of the populace (at least in the discussed areas), I agree with.

I don't know if the search function acts differently for me. When I press advanced search, there is no option to ask for the results to be shown as posts, they will always show the threads it has been found in, and I'm not that interested in going through ten threads of 50 pages each.

I am continually baffled with the fact that you vehemently argue that atheists have made certain points, where I repeatedly (including once in direct correlation to the paragraph you quoted) agree with you on that. If I'd argued against that, then I would agree with you that that hardly needed much proving. However, the question was if the posts that BttR posted were 'simply hateful' or if they were reasonable arguments that you just don't agree with. Pardon me for not taking your word on it when you so vividly disallow me to see the posts in question.

As I have said earlier, it is not a valid argument to go "huh-huh, Catholics are rapists" in light of the abuse scandal. However, there are a bunch of other points one can make that, even if can be defeated are valid questions. I have before see you interpret one of the later types for the first type, which is why I no longer trust your ability to tell them apart. That's why I want to see the quotes.

You do realize that AA is not the only source out there, right? The atheists that do go to the AA site easily spread their arguments all over the internet, and if any atheist finds an argument compelling, they will take it where they find it, be it AA or somewhere else.

I don't agree with AA on many things, and I think they're not dealing with the problems they say they do. I don't go to the AA website, but for the sake of argument, I'll pay it a visit and see if there, despite me not having gone to their website, are arguments that I agree with.

I can't be asked to do this for long, but I found the Biblical inconsistencies list, and I agree with at least a few of those. Thus, people can agree with arguments made on one website without agreeing on anything else with the creators/owners of that website. Let's see if they can be found anywhere else.

I googled one of the arguments. I found a book from the 1880'ies, on gracecentered.com, skepticsannointedbible.com and a long list of websites. Thus, it is more than possible to come across and agree with an argument that exists on a website without visiting that website.

 

Why do you hate Christians with such passion? There has never been a group of people who have given the world so much as in helping and donating and serving than Christians have. Certainly we are not perfect…but to say what you have said…it just an outright lie. Much has been done in the name of all humanity..including atheists….and Islam and the rest.

There is way much more behind the comments you make…what is it? Whats the real deal?

 

Tell that to the Native Americans who were murdered by Christians... the Africans who were traded as chattel by Christians... the Jews who were incinerated alive by Christians...

 

Oh come now, you atheists were right there beside us child. And then you repressed us, and murdered us in droves when Papa Stalin took over, and Papa Moa, and there you have that paradise in North Korea.

Not too mention, who was it that actually began the abolitionist movement? Not you atheists. Not by a long shot. Who is it that is organizing and fighting the modern version of slavery? Sexual human bondage? Not atheists. Nope, instead you wankers are organizing to ban art ... like Nazis.

SO B, is there some reason you expect your propagandistic swill to be treated with respect? Or do you enjoy deliberately putting on your historical blinders?

 

I do not hate Christians ? Quit making silly assumptions. I do hate what has been done in the name of of the Christian God and you should too.

You clearly have not studied the history of Christianity.

The history of Christianity is a history of conversion by the sword and it is truly a bloody sick mess.

 

I love to lambaste Christian hypocrisy on this site, but even I cannot get behind this. I do not think this has much of anything to do with Christians or Christianity. In a 2008 Census, 69% of Americans identified themselves as Christian. Now there were no guidelines or criteria as to what a Christians was defined as, other than to let people self identify. IMO the actual number of Christians is much lower than that. I am willing to bet that most violent crimes are not committed by regular Church goers who aspire to live a life that exemplifies the teachings of Jesus.

Many of the people out there committing violent crime are addicts and or sociopaths among other things, that care about nothing other than furthering their own selfish gains. You cannot force these people to change as change has to start from within. So in reality, what can Christians or anyone else do? There are Christian rehab centers, counselors, and other assorted social services out there. In my view the "Real Christians" are out there doing Gods work to the best of their ability. Our society is better because of them... but they need help and there is much progress to be made.

 

The mechanisms of social control that permitted the atrocities I cited were, to be sure, borne of organized religion. Mao, Stalin, Castro, Jong Il, et al, simply replaced the method of social control. A despot is a despot.

My response was to address the list of virtues of Christianity cited by our colleague. I have posted no such list for the communist heroes you are so fond of citing as there are none, so please stop pretending that I have.

Do we need to repeat the exercise in basic logic again?

 

I think you missed the point of the thread, but that's OK.

 

OK, so whats your point?

 

Oh Bull (*)(*)(*)(*).

The idea that atrocity occurs only where religion happens to be is absolutely stupid. You are either deliberately blind to history, or simply being stupid.

Genghis Khan - pillaged his way from Mongolia, through China and all the way to Western Europe, destroying the Middle East in the process ... yet he show up no where on your record.

Pre-Christian Europe, a land of Warlords that made Afghanistan look stable, a place the rocked Western Europe back into the dark ages ... only slowly growing out of it WITH the help of the church.

And then there is feudalism, tribalism, and I am sure your personal favorite, communism, all of which excreted social controls, in a dazzling display of wanton human passion for power and control - a process your precious atheism was not spared, but somehow, despite the Paris Communes, despite Moa and Stalin, Atheist North Korea, and yet it gets a pass ... because there are other forms of social control, eh?

As usual, another atheist buys into the propaganda unthinkingly, and calls his callous exclusion of obvious contrarian evidence to ... well, its just ignored isn't it?

Another finger pointing preacher of atheist, all hell fire and (*)(*)(*)(*)ation for religion, (*)(*)(*)(*) and poison, but in the end, you are just another snake oil salesman trying to take advantage of the uneducated aren't you?

Tell me, what is about atheists that makes them so horrifically hypocritical in their finger pointing and (*)(*)(*)(*)ation of others?

After all, after years of abusing the Catholic Church, their silence on the BBC case is ... deafening. As it was in France. And therein lies the lesson of comparative morality, so quick to point fingers at others ... what happens when those standards come home to judge you?

What is that Bible verse on judgement that you atheists like to site? Seem oddly fitting.

 

He didn't say this though, did he?
Note the text you quoted.

 

Jeeshhhhh, is this silly polarising twaddle still going on in here!?!

No, of course no atheist would ever stand up against slavery, and modern campaigns against sex bondage are exclusively fought by Christian organisations... lol, me thinks someone needs to inform themselves and get a dose of reality!

 

So 'atheists' are supporting slavery because 'they' want to legalise prostitution?
Is this what you are trying to insinuate?
And I am full of **** because I do not follow this peculiar reasoning?

It's all a little far-fetched, simplistic and, frankly, laughable. lol

 

I wish to be able to participate without my person being insulted and taunted with behaviour akin to a raging pitbull.

 

Please try to keep up.

 

Another scintillating argument from an atheist!

 

That's not even remotely what I said.

Sure, I never claimed my list was exhaustive. I was doing something called using an example.

Yes, I'm clearly a commie. Can you hear yourself?

Nothing is ignored. That you refuse or are incapable of reading plain English does not change my position in any way. I am going to say it one more time, slowly, plainly, and clearly, and in large bold text so you'll have no excuse to further distort my position to suit your purposes:

Despotism is despotism, and it is a form of social control, whether the despot be a Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Jew, a Rastafarain, an Animist or (gasp), even an atheist!

See above.

I don't know. You'll have to ask one. But there is no hypocrisy in my post as you erroneously imply.

Apples and oranges.

You meant to say 'cite.'

 

In other words a bunch of reflexive one liners that has absolutely nothing to do with your deliberately scoped presentation of one sided history and your categorical avoidance of evidence that contradicts your claims of religion and its ties to violence.

Nice.

I am wrong, accusatory, and too stubborn to admit that I am wrong. Might as well have written than and saved the rest of the space.

 

So you refuse to clarify your position. Fine, you obviously are not here for debate.

 

Well what was your first clue?

 

look south of the border.. that is a country that is 98% Christian, much more "Christian" then we are... I do not think it makes them better then we are

I think our religious freedoms for all is part of what make us better...

.