Union Hacks kill Twinkies

But the issue is Americans want High Pay! ANd they want cheap imports. Do you see the issue here?

You want good pay you buy American.

 

You can't get more American than Twinkies, so I'm not seeing a correlation. By all practical principals this company, Hostess should not be going broke, and shouldn't have had to file bankruptcy multiple times. The guy who makes $14 dollars an hour isn't the one bleeding the company dry. The group of people making over a $1000.00 an hour in salaries, benefits, and bonuses whether they deserve them or not, IS THE PROBLEM. Can't say it much plainer than that.


Yes Americans who work for a living want to be paid a reasonable wage/salary for the work they do, based on the profits their work helps create. If you will, an honest days pay for an honest days wages, is what they used to call it. Americans who think like this were once considered good capitalists, participating in a successful capitalistic economic society.

Today they are considered takers. It is truly sad what this country has evolved into.

 

I don't mess with IBC products. But You also know what the hell I am talking about.

 

Nothing is wrong with it but when the Unions become corrupt and set things up in a manner in which non union people cannot participate in the process. PSE is is famous for its selection process, selection of friends and family members of people already in the Union. Most of the time being a good electrician with a hell of a skill set isn't good enough to get in, unless you know somebody. I've run into instances where these people do work on the side and screw it up. Just recently I was in Lakewood Wa at a little old ladies house and I found her kitchen circuit was not grounded. She said she paid a union guy who worked for PSE $2000 to replace/upgrade her power panel. I was howling as I drove away. I connected 2 wires for her and did it right.

I've got 30 years of experience working with everything from 140,000 volt transformers to old CRT TV sets, I have 2 36" in Quasar CRT TVs both of which I got for nothing, both of which I repaired myself and still use to this day. I've applied to PSE numerous times and have never been called. I'm not a member of the herd, I never will be. Longshoreman are even worse.

I can't respect a Union anymore. I go my own way.

 

so lemme get this straight. It is now the responsibility of businesses to make sure that regardless of the job, an employee should be able to raise a family on the salary with this so called "livable wage"

If you need to make $45,000 per year to support a family of 4 in the region then a person who packs boxes must be paid the $45,000

is that your assertion?

Do I get to pay people without kids less money because they need less to "live"?

Do I get to pay single people even less?

In this utopia of yours, do I also get to discriminate against parents so I can hire the lower paid single people?

How do I defend myself in court when single people sue me because i pay married people more money so they have a "livable wage"?

and finally, will the govt make a mandate whereby the consumer must purchase my product regardless of price? If not, how will I remain in business?


Please help add clarity to my clouded vision

 

Oh God Sec, I just had to laugh at that one. You shouldn't even have to ask such questions if common sense were the standard in conversing. The emotional whims of liberal thought just can't connect the dots. Never have, never will. And because of this disconnect we have half the country voting to throw out the budget, lift the debt ceiling, spend even more money that we don't have and do it faster than ever before.

 

As long as they can continue to rape the little guy and screw the big guy they will keep it up.

 

In Venezuela, the govt dictates what a butcher can charge for meat. Butchers have been literally tossed into jail for charging more than the govt will allow. They were trying to cover their costs. In other words, Chavez gets to make the claim that he keeps the cost of food low however the shelves are bare in supermarkets.

It's the same at drug stores. You can't get medicine because it cost more to buy than what you are allowed to charge. Again, Chavez gets to state how he keeps health care costs low.

It would actually be funny but real people are affected by the idiocy just like we're watching it happen here in the USA.

The takers hear the liberal siren song but don't realize they are being led to their own slaughter.

 

If they accept that they have voluntarily placed themselves in line for the slaughter they must come to terms with the meaning of responsibility and accountability. It is easier to be blind and clueless. That way when things don't work out they can blame someone else and never have to realize they are their own worst enemy. Until that day others like myself will have to be the bad guys who don't understand liberal logic, an emotionally based thought process that has no valid conclusion.

 

I know this may be a shock to you, since you have created this little world where people only work so a small percentage of the population can become/remain rich, but that's not capitalism. In a capitalistic economy people get jobs, so they can make an honest "living". Thus the use of the phrase livable wage applies. They work to live, get it?

That requires an income that makes them productive members of society, not a burden or a strain on society. They need jobs that allow them to advance (more money) as their experience level increases, improving their value to their employer. They also need to be able to improve their educational level so they will be able to get a better job when advancement opportunities no longer exist. Minimum wage jobs are not good for the economy, and creating work forces that fall into this category so a small minority of the population can receive a small fortune each and every year, whether the money is their or not, results in the failed economy we are experiencing today. It's just numbers and the numbers do not lie.

Did I say a specific amount "had" to be earned or even mention $45,000.00 in anything I said?

If you could get away with it why would you not try and cheat your workers indiscriminately. That seems to be your policy now. You certainly do not care about what their needs might be, and you obviously have no desire to pay a person based on the profits their labor helps create.

Being the smart guy you seem to be, I'm sure you have a policy with your employers that they should not discuss their pay, like most companies do. I don't know any employees who get paid the same unless they are at an entry level for the same position. Some get raises for doing nothing special, while others who deserve raises, allow themselves to be taken advantage of, those are the guys you like right?

If you are a poor businessman, don't blame it on the government. In any case we are talking about one particular company, a mismanaged company that makes lots of money has a good product, and a cost factor that seems to be directed at the incompetents running the company, not the workers.

It's self imposed cloudiness. See when you don't want to discuss the actual issues you deflect in a different direction all together, so how can I take your blinders off, or in your case place them on so you can stay focused on the actual discussion at hand? You want to label me a liberal but I am not, so you are wasting your time with that fallacy.

 

So you are claiming the government has dictated what Hostess can sell Twinkies for, and will place them in jail if they try and increase the price? Delusional!

See how idiotic it sounds to take things out of context?

 

What does this have to do with Hostess? A company mismanaged and driven into the ground?

 

What a total fail. You couldn't give a single non-emotional answer to any of it. There has to be a resemblance of logic and reason for an idea to move forward.

 

Without looking over their books and taking into account the years of problems, I cannot be too specific on the multitude of problems at Hostess. One thing seems obvious. It was bad management to engage in trying to negotiate with union bullies. That should have been dealt with early on. They gave, then gave some more, until there was no position left them.

From the Union side, they thought they were in the driver's seat because there had been a pattern of getting more when they flexed their muscle. They also engaged in terrible management because they have placed themselves far outside of reason by driving up the price of the very goods that would supply a good job for years to come. Talk about lack of thought. They have reached the end and it is their own doing as well.

Had management stood firm in the first place those jobs would have lasted far longer. But they gave over their power to the monkeys who eventually assumed they were the reason everyone ate Twinkies. The union is so stupid it will take them the better part of a year to realize the unemployment check isn't as large as the pay check they used to get. In the end they will blame it on management because they cannot bring themselves to understand how they were the ones who joined the line to the slaughter. Liberal logic, an emotionally based thought process, permits making the mental leap that we are responsible for our own actions.

 

You should unionize and bargain for better terms and conditions of employment.

 

Kill the unions!

 

What is your problem? Don't you want people to have better working conditions then what they already have? You can't depend on the company to take care of you and your family. One would hope you'd see the light.

 

"HACKS." Why does that word sound so familiar? Oh yes, it's one of the favorite words of that great thinker, RUSH LIMBAUGH!

 

Bull (*)(*)(*)(*)! Well slugs need unions but if you bust your ass and do your job you are well compensated.

 

nice try but if you ever spent time in the Boston area like I did many years ago you become quite familiar with union hacks.

 

more to the point

he could not give one answer. He introduced the term "livable wage" into the thread and i asked for a definition and how it would be executed within a business

 

Here let me give it a shot.

The point should not be a livable wage, but a wage capable of consumption that has been proven in history to create demand.

People like to ask the wrong question when it comes to wages. They ask what a task deserves to be paid, which seems like the most subjective, void of fact appraoch a person could take to deciding what a job's wage should be.

The supply of the workforce has been artificially expanded with rigged currencies, and trade agreements, so the argument that the market should dictate it is broken.

What this leaves us with is what should a job's wages be to maximize economic growth. The answer to this is clear. We need jobs that pay enough to pay a mortgage on a 3 bedroom 1600 sq ft house, to pay a car payment and insurance, to buy clothes and other consumer goods, to save for a college education, and to be able to take a vacation once a year. This is what the definition of middle class has always been.

The sad part is that this is probably about 100k a year when you factor in food, fuel, HC, utilities, ect.

Most here find that an absurd wage I'm sure, but i bet you also can't tell me why we are in a demand driven recession either.

 

Talk about a total fail. The CEO admitted the unions had nothing to do with the mismanagement of the company. Unions do not destroy companies.

And there was nothing emotional about the points I covered with logic and common sense. People need jobs to live, or are you suggesting they don't, and government will fill that void? Just in case you haven't been paying attention, that has been tried and is failing miserably.

 

Obviously that is not what I said, or implied. Thanks for attempting to read my mind though.

As far as the bold you come close, since this phenomenon has been created by cronyism capitalism, and the best government corporate money can buy. They have all but destroyed main street USA, small businesses, and mom & pop establishments, mostly through government interference, over regulation, a tax code that was invented by and for the rich/elites, etc... etc...

Any true capitalist would see this, but phony conservatives haven't got a clue since they are spoon fed political propaganda like it was pudding, and elitist BS like it was air.

 

Of course people need jobs to live, but they are not owed a job, nor a wage that does not match that job. Is this something we can agree on?