Direct democracy - Carbon Tax

yes Ziggy, and if they did have a direct democracy the greens would not exist in Australian Government, But you do not.

So this would be considered as TROLLING.

 

... what on Earth are you talking about? The Greens are not part of the government.

Why would they not exist if we had direct democracy?

 

Yes - what is this "Carbon Tax" you and Tony keep talking about and has Alan Jones so upset?

Is the carbon pricing that Labor took to the election, and were elected to deliver what you call a "carbon tax".

Or does "carbon tax" only refer to the 3 year fixed price period of the ETS that was negotiated after the election with the Greens?

Could you explain?

 

The rest of the country was told. You weren't listening:

John Howard, 2007 election: “We have established a committee which recommended the introduction of an ETS. And work is well underway to introduce that by 2011. It will be the most comprehensive ETS anywhere in the world.”
http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/27/crikey-says-50/



Just like you weren't listening when the ALP went to the last election with a policy to introduce a price on carbon. Which they have now done.

 

Ohhhhhhh...so an ETS is not a "carbon tax"?!?! Is that what you are saying?!?!

I don't think Big Tony agrees with you I'm afraid:

Mr Abbott has called the Rudd ETS "a great big new tax on everything


NEW Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, writing exclusively for The Daily Telegraph, has launched a savage attack on Kevin Rudd's Emissions Trading Scheme, calling it an Extra Tax Scheme
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...l-hurt-australia/story-e6freuzr-1225806908826

So what exactly is this "Carbon Tax" you keep talking about? I am very confused?

Is it a carbon pricing mechanism in general?
It it an emissions trading scheme?
Or is it just the 3 year fixed price period that was negotiated with the Greens after the election?

Could you clarify?

 

You really can not read or comprehend what you write, can you? I ASKED what this ETS was, NOT if he had one.

Can you not answer My Question? LOL BIG FAIL AGAIN

Yes, I was listening when Gillard announced she would not introduce a CARBON TAX, I was listening when she stated several times she would have committees to discuss what to do and would not act until the population had examined results and where ready for ANY change. AND YES I was listening when Gillard Apologised for misleading the Australian people.

When will you admit the same?

 

And he would be right.

not surprising

Gillard has set the price, How can you call this a PRICING MECHANISM? So, I guess this is wrong.

Perhaps you should recall that the CARBON TAX Gillard is introducing will be transitioning to an ETS no earlier than 2015, Not set in concrete and subject to change.

FIXED PRICE ETS, Is that your claim? Perhaps, you could explain, exactly how this fixed price period works, How the permit system in this So called system works and what will happen to the revenue?

Not until you answer my question.

 

Huh!?!?
It is a pricing mechanism where the price is fixed for a period of time.

What don't you understand about that?

So - it is the fixed price period that has upset you so much is it? The change to the ALP policy that was put in place after the election after negitiations with the Greens

Is this correct?

Yes, it is an EST with an initial fixed price period.

In the first stage of the mechanism (covering the eligible financial years beginning on 1 July 2012, 1 July 2013 and 1 July 2014), liable entities can purchase carbon units at a fixed charge and the Commonwealth will allocate a limited number of free carbon units as industry assistance.

In the second stage of the mechanism (starting on 1 July 2015), liable entities can buy a limited number of carbon units at auction and the Commonwealth will allocate a limited number of free carbon units as industry assistance.

You can find all teh details you want in the Clean Energy Bill 2011:
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/...gislative-package/clean-energy-bill-2011.aspx

Answered,

Now could you explain to us what has upset you so much?
What do you think a "carbon tax" actually is?

Is it a carbon pricing mechanism in general?
It it an emissions trading scheme?
Or is it just the 3 year fixed price period that was negotiated with the Greens after the election?

Could you clarify?

 

How is it a pricing mechanism If the price is already set? Just because you say it is does not make it so.

No.

So you actually do not understand, How the Gillard government has constructed this policy with or without the Greens wishes?

No, it is not. I asked you how you think this will work. You obviously do not know.

I could. I do not agree with any of what Gillard and the Greens are doing. Perhaps you should look around and see that many of these countries that where examining this type of system have been turning away in search of a better system. This is entirely because they do not wish to leave their economies to the whims of speculation and the possibility of loss of investment over rising production costs.

But, the main reason, it will cripple the poorer of the world while reducing nothing, in ever attempts of governments trying to show how they are providing for the poor. Sorry, I believe in people over attempts to make others feel good, by paying a little more of their ever expanding incomes. Other than something that could be truly affective with some decent leadership, rather than the type of leadership that would only rather look good and get re-elected.

Could you tell me how this is not a carbon tax when permits are issued on a yearly bases and expire at a set period of time. Who is the governing body that Issue these credits, the Government? Now you proclaim that the Fixed price period is only to 2015? so why is it that the credits ISSUED after this date will have expiry 2018? Why is it that the regulater can either issue more credits with and expiry date by either a fixed price or Auction? and Who do you think will get the proceeds from these sales?
From your link

I asked before if you understand how this carbon tax works, and you provided a link, that you clearly have not actually read. Perhaps. one day you will stop paraphrasing articles and begin to actually read and understand your links.

Oh just on that too

Also from your link.

You call that an ETS?

 

Buy yourself a dictionary - and give yourself an uppercut.

I have no idea what you are ranting about. Neither do you.

Why can't your just answer the question? What is this "carbon tax" you keep talking about? What is really upsetting you?

Is it a carbon pricing mechanism in general?
It it an emissions trading scheme?
Or is it just the 3 year fixed price period that was negotiated with the Greens after the election?

And if you don't like emissions trading - a policy that has been previously proven to work with respect to SOx and NOx emissions - what better alternative do you propose?






Or are you just upset that the ALP won the election by receiving all of those informal votes? Ha ha ha ha!!!!

 

As I thought, You can not refute so you attempt subterfuge

It is not my problem if you can not read, I answered your question, but you still have not answered mine. Why can't you answer mine? LOL

Does it lay as an example? perhaps instead of proclaiming this you could actually explain this ETS with respect to SOx and NOx emissions, you proclaim as example? I do not think you can. As with most of what you claim, I think somebody told you about it and you are simply paraphrasing what you where told. So surprise me, answer a question, either one will do.

YES. LOL
So, the joke would be on you then, I admitted my failing and apologised, come to think of it, I don't think you have ever admitted a mistake or a failing of your own, have you? of coarse not, YOU are superior, to all about you?

 

Where and by how much????????????????????????????????

 

If taxes were necessary we wouldn't need direct democracy. Democracy is needed for restoring market value to work. Paying for jobs by taxes is a bogus idea swallowed by societies deprived of a concept of self-governing economy.

 

That`s about the size of it.