I am a HUGE advocate of alternative energy because...

Discussion in 'Survival and Sustainability' started by NoPartyAffiliation, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. PrometheusBound

    PrometheusBound New Member

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    Whale oil also became obsolete, althoug nobody bothered to change national policy to switch over from it. Another reason to not interfere with the natural course of economic development is that the wealth gained from free production of the previous energy source was the only thing that enabled the financing of the new replacement source. Cut down on the production of oil and we won't have enough money to develop alternatives.
     
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The Sun will deplete 6 billion years from now.

    Oil might deplete in the next 50-100 years.

    Do you actually see a relevance between the two comments??
     
  3. PrometheusBound

    PrometheusBound New Member

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    Yes, I think we should attack the OPECkers who declare us their enemy and finance terrorism. Your cowardly appeasement and multiculturalism indicate more of choking failure of courage than a mental block.
     
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    71% of the Earth's surface is ocean water. YOU believe from YOUR sources that oil is greater than 71%. So...using some math we have 71% water, 29% land, and 72% oil which equals 172%. I guess what you are saying is that Earth is actually larger in diameter than we have been told...I sure hate conspiracies...
     
  5. FFbat

    FFbat New Member

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    Government endorsed advances in technology have a history of being a boon in this country. The biggest example is the Railway system developed during the industrial revolution. Land and Money was dumped on companies who could facilitate this development.
     
  6. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    Nah. I've served in uniform and earned my stripes. But you are nothing, if not entertaining!

    So please, share some more of your views!

    How do you feel about inter-racial marriage?

    Do you think 9/11 was an inside job?

    Do you think Obama is a Muslim?

    I'd love to hear your views on these things!
     
  7. PrometheusBound

    PrometheusBound New Member

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    The oil is under the land and the oceans. Millions of years of biomass piled up to make that subterranean ocean of oil. We've barely scratched the surface of the Earth's deep pockets.
     
  8. PrometheusBound

    PrometheusBound New Member

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    Like our appeasing President, you too bow down to the Saudi king.
     
  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Last I read there was about 1.5 trillion barrels of 'proven' oil reserves.

    Current world consumption is 88 million barrels per day or 32 billion barrels per year. 1.5 trillion divided by 32 billion equals approximately 47 years.

    Instead of arguing about details neither of us know, let's assume that 47 years is correct.

    Obviously the current 88 million barrels per day consumption will increase with population growth and further industrial development by at least 2% per year which reduces the 47 year number. Further, we have consumed the low-hanging oil and will be consuming the high-hanging oil which means higher and higher prices to the consumer which means economics will shorten the 47 years even more. Maybe we're now at 30-35 years?

    Since we have trillions of fossil fuel machines dependent on oil, with no current alternative fuel for those machines, and no current technology to convert those trillions of machines to another energy source, how can we possibly mitigate this data? Even if the technology existed, there's not enough money in the world to make the physical conversion! And pretending money was not an issue, it would take decades to make the physical changes necessary.

    IMO...you and everyone better hope there are affordable yet to be discovered oil reserves within quick reach. We don't need all the reserves to disappear to create panic and crisis; all we need is the rumor that it's inevitable and happening soon. $5/gallon gas for an extended time will cause economic crisis...$6/gallon and above will cause panic. An oil crisis...whether real or perceived, will bring the USA and the world to it's knees in short notice...
     
  10. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    Nice dodge! So you're embarrassed about how you would answer at least one or more of those questions! I knew it!
     
  11. hudson1955

    hudson1955 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would think most people are advocates of alternative energy regardless of whether they believe it will have any real significant effect on changing the climite cycle. However, since at the present time there is no alternative energy source that is less costly or readily available; we should not prematurely begin taxes Co2; a cost which will be passed on to consumers who are already living in financial crisis, many just bearly paying their bills if they are lucky enough to have a job.

    Before we begin taxing energy companies and therefore increasing the consumers cost of energy we need to develop another energy source that cost the same or less that the current coal, oil, gas sources.

    P.S. CO2 emissions might be reduced insignificantly by imposing a tax, but it is a fact that imposing a tax with increase the energy costs for consumers and it is a fact that most studies have shown that reducing CO2 emissions will have little effect on global warming or the current climate cycle.
     
  12. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    Oh I'm all for drilling and think it's ridiculous that the Chinese and Cubans can drill a few miles off our shore but we can't. I'm just stating my advocacy and the reasons behind it.
     
  13. PrometheusBound

    PrometheusBound New Member

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  14. Courtney203

    Courtney203 New Member

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    I am all for alternative energy. It is certainly the way ahead to becoming self reliant and maintain national security while not supplying those who wish to kill us.

    BUT............ There is always a But..

    I do not feel now is the time to be pushing it on the public. There should be a concerted effort, but this effort does not have to bankrupt us. We need to find alternative energy sources that are reliable sources that are at least equal to the cost of oil. That is the only way we can do this without crippling our own economy. There is an evil lurking in the air. An evil whose agenda is to make a lot of money. They don't care about the enviornment or national security. They use it as a wedge to stick their foots into the door of the safe. All they want, just like the big oil giants, is your money. So they are willing to create an enviornment where scientists are no longer credible people if they disagree with the mainstream theory of global warming. And all scientists who perscribe to it, are pulling down grants left and right to study it. The minute the hoax is revealed, the grants dry up and scientists go back to actually having to produce real scientific work to make money.

    It's all about money folks, and if you don't believe that. Then you need to get your head out of the sand and look around a bit. Our whole society is about money.
     
  15. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    My head's not in the sand. Oooh. Companies want money! So you're against capitalism? Wow.
    Well I'm a business owner and a capitalist and right there in my OP, I made it clear that money is a big reason I want us to lead the way and make the breakthroughs in alternative energy! And I hope the companies that do, makes lots and lots of those evil profits and provide tons of those evil money-earning jobs!
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You apparently reside in conspiracy la-la-land and it won't make any difference what me or anyone else has to say on this topic.

    You have zero sense of reality...
     
  17. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Just curious...what do you believe can be accomplished without money?

    And if you can name anything, how do you suppose that 'thing' can be sustained without ongoing profits?

    And do you know that if there are profits in a business plan, that this encourages others to enter that same business, which means competition, which usually means lower prices?

    Money is great! Profits are great!
     
  18. Courtney203

    Courtney203 New Member

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    I am not against capitalism. On the contrary! I don't consider fearing people into buying products that are much more expensive than another product that does the same thing much cheaper, capitalism. The idea of capitalism is to allow companies who offer the best products and services at the most competitive prices to survive. Misrepresenting your product to generate sales is theft, not capitalism.

    Yes, and I am there with you. However, these breakthroughs are not forthcoming yet. An electric car is still to expensive to own. A solar powered house is to expensive to own. Just about anything "green" is priced much higher than its "dirty" counterpart. Not to mention, some of the misrepresentation going on there that it is completely green as well. Such as, electric cars. The generation and disposal of batteries required for these cars is just as bad for the environment as oil is. If we were to mandate the use of green technology today, our economy would destroy itself. The price of goods would double or triple do to the additional costs companies would have to absorb to convert over to green energy means. Just the transport of goods would double or triple in cost. Imagine the cost of an electric freight truck, or clean energy aircraft.

    What I am saying, is that we need to put more energy into research and development and less into scaring people into buying the overpriced alternatives that are available now. If we put the energy into that, that people have put into the Global Warming theory, we might be getting closer.
     
  19. Courtney203

    Courtney203 New Member

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    Maybe you misunderstood my point. I have nothing against companies making money. What I have a problem with, are companies that con people into making them money.
     
  20. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    Who's misrepresenting what specifically?

    [/QUOTE] Yes, and I am there with you. However, these breakthroughs are not forthcoming yet. An electric car is still to expensive to own. A solar powered house is to expensive to own. Just about anything "green" is priced much higher than its "dirty" counterpart. Not to mention, some of the misrepresentation going on there that it is completely green as well. Such as, electric cars. The generation and disposal of batteries required for these cars is just as bad for the environment as oil is. If we were to mandate the use of green technology today, our economy would destroy itself. The price of goods would double or triple do to the additional costs companies would have to absorb to convert over to green energy means. Just the transport of goods would double or triple in cost. Imagine the cost of an electric freight truck, or clean energy aircraft.

    What I am saying, is that we need to put more energy into research and development and less into scaring people into buying the overpriced alternatives that are available now. If we put the energy into that, that people have put into the Global Warming theory, we might be getting closer. [/QUOTE]

    Well we have at least one neighbor whose house is all solar (with some kind of generators for emergencies or something). Apparently he "sells energy back" to the power company - sounds weird and not sure how it works but he loves talking about it. We're in Las Vegas btw, so we get lots of sun. And of course, he went down to AZ and bought a Nissan Leaf. I actually like the car but am weirded out by the fact that it makes no noise when it's on. I'ts weird.
    In any case, ALL technology is priced out of reach of the average consumer, when it first arrives. Cars, tvs, computers, cell phones... To believe that we shouldn't buy anything now, because it is still in the First Mass Market, is short-sighted and a guarantee that other countries will kick our butts when it comes to development and breakthroughs of the most important technologies.
     
  21. NoPartyAffiliation

    NoPartyAffiliation New Member

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    Who's misrepresenting what specifically?

    [/QUOTE] Yes, and I am there with you. However, these breakthroughs are not forthcoming yet. An electric car is still to expensive to own. A solar powered house is to expensive to own. Just about anything "green" is priced much higher than its "dirty" counterpart. Not to mention, some of the misrepresentation going on there that it is completely green as well. Such as, electric cars. The generation and disposal of batteries required for these cars is just as bad for the environment as oil is. If we were to mandate the use of green technology today, our economy would destroy itself. The price of goods would double or triple do to the additional costs companies would have to absorb to convert over to green energy means. Just the transport of goods would double or triple in cost. Imagine the cost of an electric freight truck, or clean energy aircraft.

    What I am saying, is that we need to put more energy into research and development and less into scaring people into buying the overpriced alternatives that are available now. If we put the energy into that, that people have put into the Global Warming theory, we might be getting closer. [/QUOTE]

    Well we have at least one neighbor whose house is all solar (with some kind of generators for emergencies or something). Apparently he "sells energy back" to the power company - sounds weird and not sure how it works but he loves talking about it. We're in Las Vegas btw, so we get lots of sun. And of course, he went down to AZ and bought a Nissan Leaf. I actually like the car but am weirded out by the fact that it makes no noise when it's on. I'ts weird.
    In any case, ALL technology is priced out of reach of the average consumer, when it first arrives. Cars, tvs, computers, cell phones... To believe that we shouldn't buy anything now, because it is still in the First Mass Market, is short-sighted and a guarantee that other countries will kick our butts when it comes to development and breakthroughs of the most important technologies.
     
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Can you name ten companies you believe 'con people into making them money'?
     
  23. Windigo

    Windigo Banned

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    Wind and Solar would be a good start.

    I've installed wind and solar systems when it is economically feasible to do so. However the companies themselves play the global warming con to manufacture demand where there should be none.
     
  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    A proper installation of wind or solar is not a con??

    It is a fact that the less fossil fuels we use the better our environment. Anytime we can substitute or supplement alternative energy for fossil fuel energy, we have gained something. And all of this happens no matter global climate change...
     
  25. PrometheusBound

    PrometheusBound New Member

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    All business strategies are conspiracies. All ruling classes make game plans to stay in power for generations. It's just common sense that they would do so. Quit being such a sheep. Money creates mind control. Why wouldn't the people in power create this idea that anyone who exposes what hasn't been published about them must be a kook and an amateur?

    Money talks and that's all you hear. Quit listening and start thinking.
     

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