This Breaks My Heart

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Taxcutter, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. goober

    goober New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    6,057
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seriously, loose the tinfoil hat.

    A gas pipeline is a huge capital investment that takes a while to design and permit and build.
    People don't start that process until they know they will have enough gas to justify the expense.
    So there is a period when production is ramping up that gas gets flared off, it's an economic decision.
    There is no export market for natural gas, because there are no export facilities, all our gas ports are designed and built to import liquified natural gas.
    One of the reasons that there isn't a huge rush to build export facilities is that old thing called the "profit motive".
    China is beginning a program of horizontal drilling and fracking, and by the time that export facilities are built and pipelines put in place to supply them, China may have a gas surplus, and export market for LNG will have dried up.
     
  2. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I drive over four natural gas pipelines every day.

    They've been there since the 1950s. No incidents whatsoever.

    There are tens of thousands of miles of pipelines in the US. All you ever have are minor spills every decade or so.

    The economic decision gets really complicated when the EPA gets involved.
     
  3. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    9,676
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The experience in Australia has been much the same. Absolute miles of pipes laid since the early 70's and too my knowledge nothing close to a major incident
     
  4. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    8,827
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did you hear about that fertilizer plant in West, Texas? Or ENRON?

    Yeesh!
     
  5. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    8,827
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We lost a run of salmon on one creek at two boys died because of a broken gasoline line in WA a couple years ago and the fish in the Yellowstone River have oil residues in their gonads. You definition of a "minor" spill is defective.
     
  6. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "Did you hear about that fertilizer plant in West, Texas? Or ENRON?"

    Taxcutter asks:
    You mean the fertilizer plant that exploded because a fireman got dumb?
    You mean the business that prospered greatly during the years of The Impeached One?


    " You definition of a "minor" spill is defective."

    Taxcutter says:
    No. My definition is spot on. Compared to the impoverishment of the nation by excessive regulation, a few tons of dead fish are a MINOR matter.
     
  7. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No point using energy when you can burn it needlessly. Skip the pipe and drill another environment I say. What ever kills the earth fastest makes us the winners. Conservation means waste what you can when you can.
     
  8. kowalskil

    kowalskil New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I guess everyone want pipes and factories to be as far away from their homes as possible.
     
  9. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,789
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    nobody is blocking gas pipelines. the Midwest is full of them.
     
  10. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    30,444
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_the_United_States_in_the_21st_Century

    2012 A gas pipeline exploded & burned in Estill County, Kentucky on the evening of January 2. Flames were reported reaching over 1,000 feet high. Residents up to a mile away from the failure were evacuated. There were no injuries.[266]
    2012 A forest fire caused a gas pipeline to explode and burn in Floyd County, Kentucky on January 7. There were no injuries from this incident.[267]
    2012 On January 9, a man was killed, and another person injured, in a fiery house explosion from a leaking 4-inch cast iron gas main installed in 1950 in Austin, Texas. Gas had been smelled in the area for several weeks prior to this. Gas company crews had looked along the affected property for a leak, but were unable to find it.[204][268]
    2012 A Sunoco pipeline ruptured and spilled about 117,000 gallons of gasoline in Wellington, Ohio, late on January 12. Some residents were evacuated for a week.[269][270]
    2012 On January 13, an 8-inch gas pipeline exploded and burned in a vacant agricultural field in Rio Vista, California. There were no injuries or evacuations.[271]
    2012 A Tennessee Gas Pipeline gas compressor had a major leak "that sounded like a rocket" in Powell County, Kentucky, forcing evacuations of nearby residents on January 14. There was no fire or injuries reported.[272]
    2012 A contractor excavating for a communications company caused a massive gas explosion and fire at a condominium complex on January 16 in West Haverstraw, New York, injuring 2 firefighters & 2 utility workers. Afterwards, it was found that the excavator's insurance will be insufficient to cover all of the property damage of the incident.[273]
    2012 Workers in Topeka, Kansas were installing a yard sprinkler system on January 30, hit a gas line. Gas from the leak later on exploded in a nearby home, burning a 73 year old woman, who died several weeks later.[274][275]
    2012 On January 31, a fuel pipeline to the Milwaukee, Wisconsin Mitchell International Airport was found leaking. Jet fuel had been smelled for about 2 weeks in the area, and was found in runoff water in the area.[276]
    2012 A 30-inch gas transmission pipeline burst near Baton Rouge, Louisiana on February 13. Residents in the area were evacuated for a time, but there was no fire.[277]
    2012 On February 15, 2012, in Arenac County, Michigan, oil was discovered in the soil around a 30-inch Enbridge crude oil pipeline.
    2012 Two cars that were drag racing went off the road they were on, and crash through a fence and into a crude oil pipeline in New Lenox, Illinois on March 3. The pipeline was ruptured, and the crude oil ignited. Two men from the vehicles were killed, and 3 others seriously burned.[278][279]
    2012 On March 5, a leak at an Enid, Oklahoma pipeline storage spread propane fumes in the area, forcing evacuations. There was no fire or explosion.[280]
    2012 A crude oil pipeline leaked near Grand Isle, Louisiana on March 17, spilling as much as 8,400 gallons of crude oil. There were no injuries reported.[281]
    2012 On March 29, an employee accidentally left a valve open during maintenance work on a Williams Companies gas compressor station near Springville, Pennsylvania. Later, gas leaked through the valve, causing alarms to evacuate workers in the compressor building. Later, the gas exploded and burned. There were no injuries. It was also found there are no agencies enforcing rules on rural gas facilities in that state.[282][283]
    2012 A 12-inch gas pipeline exploded and burned for 5 hours near Gary, Texas on April 4. There were no injuries, but the rupture site was only 200 feet from that pipeline's compressor station.[284]
    2012 On April 6, 2 gas company workers were mildly burned when attempting to fix a leak on a 4-inch gas pipeline leak in DeSoto County, Tennessee. The pipeline exploded & burned during the repairs.[285]
    2012 A gas pipeline exploded and burned in Terrebonne Parish, Louisiana, on April 9. The accident was reported first by a satellite monitoring the area to the NRC. There were no injuries.[286]
    2012 Two men escaped with only minor burns after a bulldozer they were using hit a 24-inch gas pipeline near Hinton, Iowa on April 25. Authorities later announced the men did not call 811 for an underground utility locate.[287]
    2012 A 26-inch gas transmission pipeline ruptured on June 6 in a compressor station near Laketon, Texas. Gas escaped from the 50 foot long rupture, igniting, leaving a crater 30 feet in diameter, burning 2 acres of agricultural area & telephone poles. There were no injuries.[288]
    2012 On June 8, near Canadian, Texas, a trackhoe operator suffered burns, after a fire from leaking 4-inch gas gathering pipeline that was undergoing maintenance. Fumes entered the engine of the trackhoe and ignited.[289]
    2012 A contractor was killed and two others injured after an explosion at a BP gas compressor station in Durango, Colorado on June 25. BP, Halliburton, and the other contractors were fined $7,000 each for safety violations in that work.[290][291]
    2012 A petroleum products pipeline burst near Jackson, Wisconsin on July 17, releasing about 54,000 gallons of gasoline. At least one family self evacuated due to the leak. At least 7 water wells nearby were contaminated from benzine in the gasoline.[292][293]
    2012 A 14-inch gas gathering pipeline exploded and burned on July 18 near Intracoastal City, Louisiana. There were no injuries or major property damage reported.[294]
    2012 On July 23, a compressor station operated by Williams Companies in Windsor, New York was venting gas in a "routine procedure"—during a lightning storm—when the vent was ignited by lightning, causing a fireball "hundreds of feet into the air"[295][296]
    2012 An Enbridge crude oil pipeline ruptured in Grand Marsh, Wisconsin, releasing an estimated 1,200 barrels of crude oil. The pipeline had been installed in 1998. Flaws in the longitudinal welds had been seen during X-ray checks of girth welds.[100][297]
    2012 4 contract workers were injured during a flash fire at a Wyoming gas processing plant.[298]
    2012 A jet fuel pipeline near Chicago, Illinois began leaking on August 27. The burst pipeline spilled an estimated 42,000 gallons of jet fuel into a ditch that empties into the Calumet Sag Channel in Palos Heights, Illinois.[299][300]
    2012 On August 28, a Atmos Energy repair crew struck an 8-inch gas main in McKinney, Texas, causing a fire. 4 Atmos workers were treated for injuries. 1,000 Atmos gas customers lost gas service for a time.[301][302]
    2012 On September 6, a 10-inch gas gathering pipeline exploded and burned near Alice, Texas. Flames reached 100 feet high, and caused a 10 acre brush fire. There were no injuries.[303]
    2012 An explosion & fire hit a Crestwood Midstream Partners gas compressor station in Hood County, Texas on September 6. Heavy damage to a sheet metal building resulted, but, there were no injuries reported to crew there.[304]
    2012 A Colorado Interstate Gas gas compressor in Rio Blanco County, Colorado caught fire on September 11. There were no reported injuries.[305][306]
    2012 On November 20, about 38,000 gallons of crude oil spilled from an Enbridge pipeline at a tank farm in Mokena, Illinois.[307][308]
    2012 Two men were injured in an explosion and fire at a natural gas production facility east of Price, Utah on November 20.[309]
    2012 On November 23, a gas company worker looking for the source of a reported gas leak in a Springfield, Massachusetts strip club pierce a gas line. The gas later exploded, injuring 21, devastating the strip club, and damaging numerous nearby buildings.[310]
    2012 A malfunction in a gas compressor caused a fire on December 4, north of Fort Worth, Texas. There were no injuries.[311]
    2012 On December 5, a 16-inch gas pipeline at 500 psi of pressure exploded and burned near a natural gas plant in Goldsmith, Texas. A fireball 250 feet high was created after the explosion, destroying 12 to 15 utility poles, and caliche and rocks the size of bowling balls damaging a road. There were no injuries reported.[312]
    2012 On December 11, at approximately 12:40pm, a 20-inch gas pipeline owned by NiSource Inc., parent of Columbia Gas, exploded along I-77 between Sissonville and Pocatalico, West Virginia. Several people had minor injuries, 4 homes were destroyed, and other buildings damaged. Early reports announced the NTSB was investigating as to why alarms in the Control Room for this pipeline did not sound for this failure.[313][314][315][316]
    2013 An independent contractor installing fiber-optic cable for a cable company in Kansas City, Missouri inadvertently struck an underground gas line on February 19. Gas later caught fire, and created an explosion that destroyed a popular local restaurant, killing one of the workers there, and injuring about 15 others near the scene.[317]
    2013 A tug towing a barge struck and ruptured a Chevron LPG pipeline near Bayou Perot, Louisianan on March 12. The tug Captain was severely burned when the escaping gas ignited, and died several weeks later from those injuries.[318][319]
    2013 On March 18, a Chevron 8 inch petroleum products pipeline ruptured along a seam, spilling diesel fuel into Willard Bay State Park near Ogden, Utah. Wildlife was coated with diesel, but, the fuel was prevented from entering into water supply intakes. About 25,000 gallons of diesel were spilled.[320][321]
    2013 Mayflower oil spill occurred when ExxonMobil's 20 inch Pegasus crude oil pipeline spilled near Mayflower, Arkansas on March 29, causing crude to flow through yards and gutters, and towards Lake Conway. Wildlife was coated in some places. Twenty-two homes were evacuated, due to the fumes and fire hazard. Some estimates say the total amount spilled could reach upwards of 300,000 gallons diluted bitumen were spilled.[322][323][324]
    2013 On April 4, an explosion & fire occurred at a gas compressor station near Guthrie, Oklahoma. Nearby homes were evacuated. There were no injuries reported.[325]
    2013 A flash fire at a pipeline gas compressor station broke out when natural gas liquids ignited in Tyler County, West Virginia on April 11, seriously burning 3 workers, two of whom later died. The workers were performing pipeline pigging operations.[326][327]
     
  11. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    8,827
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't blame the fire fighters. They were not the ones who stored a hundred times more ammonium nitrate than regs allowed on the site. I blame anti-tax morons who did not want to fund an adequate fire fighting capacity for the community.


    " You definition of a "minor" spill is defective."

    When you poison the last salmon, are we supposed to eat axle grease? Get a grip.
     
  12. Stagnant

    Stagnant Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,214
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You know, I didn't peg you for the illiterate type.
     
  13. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "I didn't peg you for the illiterate type."

    Taxcutter says:
    I'm just the type that has to deal with the EPA.
     
  14. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    2012 A gas pipeline exploded & burned in Estill County, Kentucky on the evening of January 2. Flames were reported reaching over 1,000 feet high. Residents up to a mile away from the failure were evacuated. There were no injuries.
    2012 A forest fire caused a gas pipeline to explode and burn in Floyd County, Kentucky on January 7. There were no injuries from this incident.
    2012 On January 9, a man was killed, and another person injured, in a fiery house explosion from a leaking 4-inch cast iron gas main installed in 1950 in Austin, Texas. Gas had been smelled in the area for several weeks prior to this. Gas company crews had looked along the affected property for a leak, but were unable to find it. Wow! Sixty year old pipe ruptured.
    2012 A Sunoco pipeline ruptured and spilled about 117,000 gallons of gasoline in Wellington, Ohio, late on January 12. Some residents were evacuated for a week.
    2012 On January 13, an 8-inch gas pipeline exploded and burned in a vacant agricultural field in Rio Vista, California. There were no injuries or evacuations.
    2012 A Tennessee Gas Pipeline gas compressor had a major leak "that sounded like a rocket" in Powell County, Kentucky, forcing evacuations of nearby residents on January 14. There was no fire or injuries reported.
    2012 A contractor excavating for a communications company caused a massive gas explosion and fire at a condominium complex on January 16 in West Haverstraw, New York, injuring 2 firefighters & 2 utility workers. Afterwards, it was found that the excavator's insurance will be insufficient to cover all of the property damage of the incident. Contractor failed to get information as to the location of utility lines.
    2012 Workers in Topeka, Kansas were installing a yard sprinkler system on January 30, hit a gas line. Gas from the leak later on exploded in a nearby home, burning a 73 year old woman, who died several weeks later. Contractor failed to get information as to the location of utility lines.

    2012 On January 31, a fuel pipeline to the Milwaukee, Wisconsin Mitchell International Airport was found leaking. Jet fuel had been smelled for about 2 weeks in the area, and was found in runoff water in the area. So?
    2012 A 30-inch gas transmission pipeline burst near Baton Rouge, Louisiana on February 13. Residents in the area were evacuated for a time, but there was no fire.
    2012 On February 15, 2012, in Arenac County, Michigan, oil was discovered in the soil around a 30-inch Enbridge crude oil pipeline. How much?
    2012 Two cars that were drag racing went off the road they were on, and crash through a fence and into a crude oil pipeline in New Lenox, Illinois on March 3. The pipeline was ruptured, and the crude oil ignited. Two men from the vehicles were killed, and 3 others seriously burned. Knuckleheads drag racing is a condemnation of a perfectly good pipeline?
    2012 On March 5, a leak at an Enid, Oklahoma pipeline storage spread propane fumes in the area, forcing evacuations. There was no fire or explosion.
    2012 A crude oil pipeline leaked near Grand Isle, Louisiana on March 17, spilling as much as 8,400 gallons of crude oil. There were no injuries reported.
    2012 On March 29, an employee accidentally left a valve open during maintenance work on a Williams Companies gas compressor station near Springville, Pennsylvania. Later, gas leaked through the valve, causing alarms to evacuate workers in the compressor building. Later, the gas exploded and burned. There were no injuries. It was also found there are no agencies enforcing rules on rural gas facilities in that state.[282][283]
    2012 A 12-inch gas pipeline exploded and burned for 5 hours near Gary, Texas on April 4. There were no injuries, but the rupture site was only 200 feet from that pipeline's compressor station.[284]
    2012 On April 6, 2 gas company workers were mildly burned when attempting to fix a leak on a 4-inch gas pipeline leak in DeSoto County, Tennessee. The pipeline exploded & burned during the repairs.[285]
    2012 A gas pipeline exploded and burned in Terrebonne Parish, Louisiana, on April 9. The accident was reported first by a satellite monitoring the area to the NRC. There were no injuries.
    2012 Two men escaped with only minor burns after a bulldozer they were using hit a 24-inch gas pipeline near Hinton, Iowa on April 25. Authorities later announced the men did not call 811 for an underground utility locate.
    2012 A 26-inch gas transmission pipeline ruptured on June 6 in a compressor station near Laketon, Texas. Gas escaped from the 50 foot long rupture, igniting, leaving a crater 30 feet in diameter, burning 2 acres of agricultural area & telephone poles. There were no injuries.
    2012 On June 8, near Canadian, Texas, a trackhoe operator suffered burns, after a fire from leaking 4-inch gas gathering pipeline that was undergoing maintenance. Fumes entered the engine of the trackhoe and ignited.[289]
    2012 A contractor was killed and two others injured after an explosion at a BP gas compressor station in Durango, Colorado on June 25. BP, Halliburton, and the other contractors were fined $7,000 each for safety violations in that work.[290][291]
    2012 A petroleum products pipeline burst near Jackson, Wisconsin on July 17, releasing about 54,000 gallons of gasoline. At least one family self evacuated due to the leak. At least 7 water wells nearby were contaminated from benzine in the gasoline.[292][293]
    2012 A 14-inch gas gathering pipeline exploded and burned on July 18 near Intracoastal City, Louisiana. There were no injuries or major property damage reported.[294]
    2012 On July 23, a compressor station operated by Williams Companies in Windsor, New York was venting gas in a "routine procedure"—during a lightning storm—when the vent was ignited by lightning, causing a fireball "hundreds of feet into the air"[295][296] Apparently no damage or injuries.
    2012 An Enbridge crude oil pipeline ruptured in Grand Marsh, Wisconsin, releasing an estimated 1,200 barrels of crude oil. The pipeline had been installed in 1998. Flaws in the longitudinal welds had been seen during X-ray checks of girth welds.[100][297] Apparently no damage or injuries.
    2012 4 contract workers were injured during a flash fire at a Wyoming gas processing plant.[298]
    2012 A jet fuel pipeline near Chicago, Illinois began leaking on August 27. The burst pipeline spilled an estimated 42,000 gallons of jet fuel into a ditch that empties into the Calumet Sag Channel in Palos Heights, Illinois.[299][300] Apparently no damage or injuries.
    2012 On August 28, a Atmos Energy repair crew struck an 8-inch gas main in McKinney, Texas, causing a fire. 4 Atmos workers were treated for injuries. 1,000 Atmos gas customers lost gas service for a time.[301][302] Gotta call 811, boys
    2012 On September 6, a 10-inch gas gathering pipeline exploded and burned near Alice, Texas. Flames reached 100 feet high, and caused a 10 acre brush fire. There were no injuries.
    2012 An explosion & fire hit a Crestwood Midstream Partners gas compressor station in Hood County, Texas on September 6. Heavy damage to a sheet metal building resulted, but, there were no injuries reported to crew there.[304]
    2012 A Colorado Interstate Gas gas compressor in Rio Blanco County, Colorado caught fire on September 11. There were no reported injuries.[305][306]
    2012 On November 20, about 38,000 gallons of crude oil spilled from an Enbridge pipeline at a tank farm in Mokena, Illinois.[307][308] ] Apparently no damage or injuries
    2012 Two men were injured in an explosion and fire at a natural gas production facility east of Price, Utah on November 20.[309]
    2012 On November 23, a gas company worker looking for the source of a reported gas leak in a Springfield, Massachusetts strip club pierce a gas line. The gas later exploded, injuring 21, devastating the strip club, and damaging numerous nearby buildings.[310]
    2012 A malfunction in a gas compressor caused a fire on December 4, north of Fort Worth, Texas. There were no injuries.[311]
    2012 On December 5, a 16-inch gas pipeline at 500 psi of pressure exploded and burned near a natural gas plant in Goldsmith, Texas. A fireball 250 feet high was created after the explosion, destroying 12 to 15 utility poles, and caliche and rocks the size of bowling balls damaging a road. There were no injuries reported.[312]
    2012 On December 11, at approximately 12:40pm, a 20-inch gas pipeline owned by NiSource Inc., parent of Columbia Gas, exploded along I-77 between Sissonville and Pocatalico, West Virginia. Several people had minor injuries, 4 homes were destroyed, and other buildings damaged. Early reports announced the NTSB was investigating as to why alarms in the Control Room for this pipeline did not sound for this failure.[313][314][315][316]
    2013 An independent contractor installing fiber-optic cable for a cable company in Kansas City, Missouri inadvertently struck an underground gas line on February 19. Gas later caught fire, and created an explosion that destroyed a popular local restaurant, killing one of the workers there, and injuring about 15 others near the scene.[317] Gotta call 811, boys.
    2013 A tug towing a barge struck and ruptured a Chevron LPG pipeline near Bayou Perot, Louisianan on March 12. The tug Captain was severely burned when the escaping gas ignited, and died several weeks later from those injuries. The Titanic’s captain also paid the price for running into something.
    2013 On March 18, a Chevron 8 inch petroleum products pipeline ruptured along a seam, spilling diesel fuel into Willard Bay State Park near Ogden, Utah. Wildlife was coated with diesel, but, the fuel was prevented from entering into water supply intakes. About 25,000 gallons of diesel were spilled. Apparently no damage or injuries
    2013 Mayflower oil spill occurred when ExxonMobil's 20 inch Pegasus crude oil pipeline spilled near Mayflower, Arkansas on March 29, causing crude to flow through yards and gutters, and towards Lake Conway. Wildlife was coated in some places. Twenty-two homes were evacuated, due to the fumes and fire hazard. Some estimates say the total amount spilled could reach upwards of 300,000 gallons diluted bitumen were spilled. Apparently no damage or injuries
    2013 On April 4, an explosion & fire occurred at a gas compressor station near Guthrie, Oklahoma. Nearby homes were evacuated. There were no injuries reported.
    2013 A flash fire at a pipeline gas compressor station broke out when natural gas liquids ignited in Tyler County, West Virginia on April 11, seriously burning 3 workers, two of whom later died. The workers were performing pipeline pigging operations.[326][327]
     
  15. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    30,444
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/04/2...rta-clipper-line-67-leaking-tar-sands-bitumen

    UPDATES COMING PENDING FURTHER INFORMATION. Enbridge's Line 2 **Line 67 tar sands** pipeline has leaked an estimated 600 gallons of crude oil at its pump station near Viking, Minnesota. Line 2 was built in 1956 and has a history of spills. Regulators ordered Enbridge to reduce its Line 2 operating pressure in October 2010 following the company's Kalamazoo River tar sands spill.

    The Enbridge Viking pump station also receives oil from the Alberta Clipper (aka Line 67 pipeline) that carries heavy crude oil and tar sands bitumen from the Alberta tar sands region south from Hardisty to Superior, Wisconsin and refineries in the midwestern United States. It is unclear whether the product that spilled was tar sands-derived diluted bitumen. According to a link provided by Enbridge subsequent to this story's original posting, Line 2 begins in Edmonton and carries petroleum products, including crude oil, from Edmonton to Superior. Both lines pass through the Viking pump station.
     
  16. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,789
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    those lines do not carry bitumen, they carry a variety of products including heavy crude oil. whats your point? that pipelines leak? so do tanker cars.
     
  17. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    30,444
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "The Enbridge Viking pump station also receives oil from the Alberta Clipper (aka Line 67 pipeline) that carries heavy crude oil and tar sands bitumen from the Alberta tar sands region south from Hardisty to Superior, Wisconsin and refineries in the midwestern United States."
     
  18. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,789
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    and that is not true.
     
  19. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We saw an enumeration of leaks and they were all trivial affairs, compared to the fact that pipelines carry many quadrillion BTUs of energy thousands of miles every year.

    There is much discussion of infrastructure. Pipelines ARE America's energy infrastructure. Without pipelines, US cities would be untenable.

    Nobody claim pipelines are perfect and demanding perfection from any technology is childish. For what they deliver and in the immense quantities they deliver, pipelines are remarkably safe and clean. Ever stop to think about all the pollution from Warren Buffett's BNSF locomotives dragging Bakken oil out in tank cars?

    A pipeline is inherently more efficient that a train or truck. A train, truck, or ship has to move its own weight as well as that of the cargo. A pipeline does not move. All the energy goes into moving the cargo.

    The best way to reduce pipeline leaks is to build more pipeline. That allows the operators reserve capacity to shut down a segment of a pipeline for maintenance while maintaining product flow. Maintenance could be done at a slower and more thorough pace rather than the rush required when there is not enough reserve capacity.
     
  20. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,789
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the operator will not absorb that cost
     
  21. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sure they will. Otherwise they don't operate the pipeline. You think shippers will tolerate the loss of their fluids?

    Where do you get such daffy thoughts? Do you know ANYTHING about business?
     
  22. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pipelines themselves aren't the problem. The problem is what happens if something goes wrong.

    The "liberal" media showed its true colors with the handling of the Arkansas disaster, for example.

    If we had a system that wasn't heavily manipulated by oil companies, people would trust these companies to do the right thing in the event of a disaster, and pipelines would be less of a controversy. The problem is that they've shown tremendous negligence.

    We're only a few years removed from the Gulf disaster as well.
     
  23. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,789
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    then why aren't they doubling their lines now? the shipper's product is insured. he loses nothing.
     
  24. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Arkansas pipeline is a prime example of what happens when you do not allow construction of reserve capacity. If there were reserve capacity the old pipeline could be taken down for maintenance and product flow would be unabated.

    Do you think it is profitable to go to all the expense of finding and drilling the oil and pumping it hundred of miles just to let it leak into a subdivision?

    Not negligence. It's the product of being backed into a corner by lack of reserve. the oil companies built the pipelines in the first place and would (if government did not prevent them) build reserve capacity.

    Where do people get the goofball idea it is profitable to spill oil?
     
  25. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,789
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    if building reserve capacity was economically profitable, they would have been doing it all along
     

Share This Page