Manchin: Gun Bill To Be Reintroduced

How can the same people who so vehemently and vocally opposed the intrusive, rights and liberty infringing "Patriot Act"....which was ostensibly designed to "keep us safe"....

so quickly and willingly cede similar overreaching authority to Big Fed to "keep us safe" with draconian, blanket gun-control legislation?

The answers are two.....hyper partisan political expediency... deployed for the sole purpose of excoriating Bush because of the "R" behind his name....or mental illness.

take your pick.

 

I must be color blind or you must be confused.
ND 3.3 Neb. 3.8 SD 4.3 Iowa 4.9 Utah 4.9 WY 4.9 OK 5.0 Texas 6.4 and we have millions of wetbacks taking our jobs - - Ill 9.5 Ca. 9.4 RI 9.1 NJ 9.0 DC8.5 OR 8.2 NY 8.2 CONN 8.0 Penn 7.9

Help me out here and show me where you get your opinion that gun rights equal less jobs??

Her mother and BH Obama..

We are already getting several major manufactures moving to Texas because of crazy gun laws in states where gun manufacturing has provided good jobs for over a hundred years.

Let's look at the first words in the bill that is 49 pages long - - Purpose : To protect Second Amendment rights, ensure that all individuals who should be prohibited from buying a firearm are listed in a National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and provide a responsible and consistent background check process.

A National List; in the responsible hands of the same people who created "Fast & Furious". To put a law abiding person on this list because they took an anti-depressant drug in the 70s would infringe on their right to bear arms. In Texas we already have laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and crazy people so a National List isn't needed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/manchin-toomey-background-checks-bill_n_3065100.html

You can't copy and paste any of this so you'll have to read it for yourselves. On page 4 they throw in $400M for grants to whom I don't know but I suspect their friends will get them. Now I see that the AG will coordinate with the states to create a 4 year implementation plan and states can ask kindly for a grant so that they can be involved with the plan for their state..

If a state fails to implement the plan as the AG thinks they should they lose government funding for crime fighting.

page 11 another $400M for grants. Then there is some strike this and add that as if they can go back and make a change to the bill they are writing. that is enough of that crap. Read it and see if you can follow it to the end.

I must be color blind or you must be confused.
ND 3.3 Neb. 3.8 SD 4.3 Iowa 4.9 Utah 4.9 WY 4.9 OK 5.0 Texas 6.4 and we have millions of wetbacks taking our jobs - - Ill 9.5 Ca. 9.4 RI 9.1 NJ 9.0 DC8.5 OR 8.2 NY 8.2 CONN 8.0 Penn 7.9

Help me out here and show me where you get your opinion that gun rights equal less jobs??

One more thing. Take a look a the fastest growing cities in the US. Three of the top five in Texas. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-top-12-american-boomtowns-134810207.html

 

I support legislation that makes it more difficult to get an abortion, because someday, I would like to see an end to it. I know it cannot happen overnight. I believe the same is true for those that support gun control. You'd like to make it tougher and tougher, so someday, they can be banned and confiscated. I understand...I feel the same way about abortion. But, I disagree and this is why we have to stop you at the front door....before the conditioning of the minds for the masses takes place.

 

So Mr.Machin is going to stomp his feet and jump up and down because his statist law didn't pass the senate. I and many other freedom loving Americans are glad it didn't pass and look forward to its failing again(or not coming to a vote at all which is what should happen with all gun control bills). I continue to support zero gun control and would rather die than live in a world without guns.

That is what I truely believe and I say what I mean and I mean what I say. Gun control is an infringment on rights and freedom and there is no way around that.

 

Manchin apparently has a political death wish for his party in his state.

Untouchable as he was, Robert Byrd had the political smarts to know that gun grabbing is as dangerous to a WV politician as two legs of a 765 kV transmission line.

Manchin is paving the road for Ms. Capito's election in 2014.

In WV they'll see this as: Democrats = Gun confiscators

 

There is a greater level of wealth disparity, higher cost of living, and more crime.

But progressive liberals usually hate to admit that.

Cherry pick your facts much?

 

Why? Are you a felon or mentially ill on medication?

the whole bill is about expanding background checks and providing money to help school distrcits staff quality persons as school guards.

 

Nope nope and nope.
Thats not the issue. Say I get prescribed a med from my doctor for one thing and it may side effects.
Should that be part of my permanent record?

 

This is exactly why we need gun control, especially for carrying: we never know which gun carriers are sane.

Sometimes individual rights reduce public safety. We know that guns cause more harm than good (they are more likely to be used to commit a crime than for personal defense), so it needs more regulation.

 

More BS you cannot back up.

 

So the times they were used to defend, you think the people should have just been an unarmed victim?
You keep forgetting that most gun crime is criminal on criminal.

 

What makes you think everyone will be a victim? The US is the only OECD country that has any kind of gun rights and it has the highest level of gun-related violence... by far. If guns reduced victimization, then the US, with far more guns than any other country, should be the safest country on Earth. Instead, it's one of the most violent.

I'm a grown man. I didn't need my guns and I have never been a victim of violent crime or needed a gun for self-defense. I stay out of trouble and trouble stays away from me.

 

Yea ok Chuck Norris.
You da man, bad boy. Now come down to earth. There is more to it than just staying out of trouble.

 

How about proving me wrong instead of attacking my character?

 

Melbourne Florida, PM me when you get here.
Dont give me some BS internet tough guy threat.
Also, grow a sense of humor alittle too. Rambo.

 

I have a sense of humor. I just don't use it as an excuse to hide personal attacks or threats.

 

this post is so ridiculous it is not even funny.

Yes taking into mind the rights of 80+million law abiding citizens when faced with proposals that will do nothing whatsoever to reduce crime is wanting to hand over guns to criminally insane people and criminals.

Get a grip.

 

Than I assume you have a stat somewhere that has justifiable homicides are higher than the criminal homicide rate?

 

It really shows how ignorant you are when you talk like this. Its obviously just the guns, not you know bordering with one of the most violent countries in the world, having the people responsible for most of that violence have a completely dedicated multi billion dollar smuggling operation set up for the sole reason of infiltrating our country to sell drugs, nor the violent gangs in the US fighting for their own little piece of those few billion.

Nope its just the guns.

Must be why most gun crimes are committed by people already barred by law from owning a gun. So the only viable option is to create more laws.

Do our rights that enjoy guaranteed protection under the second amendment contribute to crime? Sure, but not in any significant amount and your fooling yourself thinking that someone whos mental or a criminal who wants to get a gun for the reason of committing a crime will willfully submit themselves to the same laws that the other millions of gun owners will be forced to.

 

Name the "threat". Cause I called you Chuck Norris? Please man.

 

No. It's not just the guns. It's also weak gun laws. They both are involved in high crime rates in gun-friendly states. The states with the loosest gun laws have the most gun related violence.

You can't use proximity to Mexico as an excuse. As you can see from the image below, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California all have very different gun-related death rates.



The state with the most gun-related deaths (excluding DC) doesn't even border Mexico.

 

So one more gun law is the fix?

 

Obviously not. And, no, I will not go down to Melbourne Florida because I have no wish to fight you. I'm just here to debate in civil manner... not a brawl.

Did you not get my point earlier? I have not been a victim of a violent crime because I stay out of trouble. Why such aggression from gun nuts?

 

HOw is it an excuse? Are you serious? Its not specifically spillover. The illegal drug trade is responsible for 30+ thousand deaths in mexico, for the sole control of the US distribution to US gangs who commit most of the gun crimes in this country. Bordering with mexico and its subsequent effect on our gangs/drug trade is a major factor in our violent crime rate.


But lets forget that and ill focus on that chart. Those states crime rates are higher with less gun control laws *gasp*. But but but, lets look at the state by state murder rates in historical context, maybe it will help us get some perspective huh?

To start, serious gun control proposals didnt really start showing up in any state until late 1960s/early 1970s.

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/they_haven't_worked.htm

Now we will take two states, liousiana and california just for shts and giggles. LA has a higher murder rate than CA, that much isnt debatable.

LA:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/lacrime.htm

CA:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm



But lets look at the murder rate in 1960, when there were very lenient gun laws in both of those states.

LA: 8.3 per 100,000
CA: 3.9 per 100,000


But how can this be? Gun control is supossedly the reason for californias lower murder rate, yet before gun control even came into the picture LA had an almost exactly proportionally higher murder rate compared to CA as they do today.

2011

LA: 11.2 per 100,000
CA: 4.8 per 100,000


So now lets throw gun control into the mix. In the late 1960s in CA there was a huge surge in gun control, LA not so much. However both states continued to hold a proportionate amount of murder rates, with a constant rise for a few decades with LA consistently about 2 times higher than CA. In fact this trend is not only is evident from 1960 to 2011, but it almost follows to the year! 1994 was the year that both states(and most of the rest of country as well) saw their crime rate drop, holding true to the same 2x murder rate despite any gun control legislation coming in or going out.

If you are implying that gun control laws are the cause for higher murder rates in some states compared to others, you are very very wrong.



Cliffs: Historical evidence shows gun control is not a major factor in different crime rates between states.(let alone on a national level)