Some Damning - And Surprising - Statistics About Interracial Crime

What you're saying is idiotic; you think you've said something, but you essentially have NOTHING. It is obvious.

(See yourself on my 'ignore' list.)

 

And neither do I. I don't support the way that AA has been used - it is a very blunt tool to address a symptom without addressing the cause. It attempts to address the inequality of outcome of pre-college education by attempting to 'equalise' the outcome somewhat at college intake level, instead of addressing the actual issues that cause the inequality that exists by that stage. That is the wrong way to do things.

There are certainly attitudes among some communities that need to be addressed alongside the addressing of the social disadvantages that cause the problem. It's not an easy thing, and it's not something that can be done overnight, but the only solution to the problem is to take a holistic approach to addressing inequality of opportunity. Alongside improved education among black communities has to go improved infrastructure, improved policing, and all manner of other social measures - part of that is changing the attitude of hopelessness that causes the 'no point in trying because I can't succeed' attitude. An important part of that, of course, is taking action to address the real inequalities of opportunity caused by attitudes such as 'their culture is inferior' among some members of other communities - that kind of thing is what can significantly limit their opportunity to succeed in getting jobs - if people in black communities see that their efforts are only met by such irrational prejudice that results in keeping them from getting real opportunity, then it's hardly surprising that many of them lose hope altogether and become buried in a rut of hopelessness that drags the whole community down to a point where very few people bother to make those efforts anymore (because they know that there is little point).

It's a very long term problem that requires a very long term set of solutions, and AA doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of it - it's the kind of solution dreamed up by politicians who are only concerned with the short term, and not interested in doing the difficult, long term things (with all of the setbacks and their associated potential bad publicity that are inevitably involved in doing such things).

The point is not one of 'equal outcome' at all, it is one of genuinely equal opportunity. In order to create equal opportunity, you need to address the inequalities of opportunity that already exist, not to ignore them and suggest that everything's hunky-dory and those who are capable and try will have the same opportunity as everyone else (when they blatantly don't), and not to just use a blunt instrument to try to make the statistics looks better in the short term by creating an imbalance for a few people at a particular point in the educational system.

 

Of course it's idiotic to YOU!!! As the statistics say, there are 9 black on white crimes for every white on black crimes and you sit there and try to say that's idiotic??? And ask me if I care whether I'm on your ignore list or not.

 

How about getting serious for a moment, as I told you, my hide isn't exactly Lilly white ( we have some black blood in the family tree). I'm saying that it all depends upon the person, not the race but there are a lot of blacks that think the rest of the world owes them a living. We have had a lot of blacks come on the job and quit half way through the day claiming the work was just toooooo hard. And these guys were a lot bigger than me.

 

Anyone whose first choice is to victimize other members of society because they are inconvenient would be doing that society a favor by not passing on his or her warped thinking. Have you ever once in your life tried to make a positive change in the situation in even the tiniest manner? I would be very surprised to hear that the answer was "Yes".

 

I'm not suggesting that there aren't any black people who have ended up with poor attitudes (and there's certainly some white people like that, too!), but I'm suggesting that we have to look a little deeper in order to address some of the causes of some of those attitudes than just suggesting that they are an 'inferior race' or an 'inferior culture'. That kind of simplistic thinking will only perpetuate the problem and make it worse - it's far too simplistic, just as AA is far too simplistic a tool to try to deal with anything effectively in the long term.

I'm certainly not suggesting either that all black people will miraculously develop great attitudes even if the opportunity deficit and other problems are addressed in the long term - there will still always be lazy and stupid black people, just as there are still lazy and stupid white people (and lazy and stupid people from very wealthy backgrounds in some cases - they are often lucky enough to have an opportunity to succeed to an extent (at least enough to make a living) without bothering to try very hard, though!). I'm saying that there is a widespread problem of poor opportunity and consequent hopelessness as a result of the long term effects of poverty in their families and communities (irrespective of race - let's not ignore the 'poor white trash' issue either - it's part of the same overall problem), and that that is compounded by the problem of discrimination and racial tension (sometimes on both sides, with mistrust being shown both ways). We need to get beyond that. We can't do it by simplistic approaches to deal with symptoms and statistics that only real serve to heighten tensions, but we can't do it by ignoring the problem or falling into the trap of thinking it's all just their fault for being 'inferior' either - all of those things will only make the problem gradually worse in the long term.

There is no doubt that black people, even poor black people, can actually succeed in life, and can achieve their potential as human beings (and by equally 'high flying' as white people) - some of them certainly do. There is no doubt that white people from poor backgrounds can too. There is no doubt, though, that a hugely disproportionate amount of both groups fail to do that. Why is it so much harder for such groups to succeed? It's not just about them being 'inferior' or having 'poor attitudes' - it goes much, much deeper than that - attitudes are created and influenced in the long term by situations, and they can also then effect situations to create a downward spiral effect. That is what has happened over a long time to the poor, and particularly to those poor people who are also the victims of genuine discrimination, and that is what needs to be addressed.

The first step in addressing that is education, of course. Not just silly schemes to make sure a certain number of a certain group get into college whether or not they are 'worthy', but actually action from the very beginning of the education system (and even before) to make sure that by the time college stage is reached the playing field is genuinely far more level - that the people from poorer backgrounds have received an equivalent quality of education and support to allow them to reach their potential and compete on an even footing. Also, there is the issue of education promoting a positive attitude, so that they really understand that it is worth them trying, and that they can succeed by their own efforts, and so on. In order to succeed with that, education needs to go hand-in-hand with other social measures of support and encouragement for all poor communities (regardless of race). Alongside that, of course, is the education of people from other groups to understand that people being 'poor' or 'different' aren't actually 'inferior', and are worthy of equal chances and opportunities as people from better off families.

It's certainly not about 'equality of outcome' either, before someone throws that old chestnut in again - it's entirely about a more genuine level equality of opportunity, and a reduction of the significant disadvantage caused by poverty (and that perpetuates poverty through the generations), so that everyone can succeed in fulfilling their own potential, according to their own efforts.

 

Sentencing statistics are also fine to look at. So the question is, why the longer sentences? Racism? Probably a factor? Courts doling out sentences based on a particular area's desperate need to get thugs off crime-ridden streets? Probably also a factor, and I submit to you, a larger one.

 

Say this in the mirror and you will have done more good in the world.

Yes. I have children, and I teach them to think for themselves. Likely they shall grow into intelligent libertarians in the future because I will not allow idiots to taint their young and impressionable minds.

 

Lots of ordinary people and not so ordinary do those things and at any income level. Having wealth isn't evidence of responsibility or intelligence.
Try to consider people that are impoverished with the same understanding and tolerance that you give racists, if you can.
(suggesting surveillance at all for victimless crimes is wild)

Since this is on one of those icky race threads, I'll ask if posting this detailed dehumanizing horsehooey and your reference to the poor and crime is supposed to be about a particular race, or is it an attempt to use a more inclusive discriminatory approach?
As we all know there are impoverished Americans of every ethnic group with varying levels of intelligence and then how you measure intelligence is another thing altogether.
No one seems to care about white on white crime.
race talk is so stupid

You don't believe in innocence before proven guilt if you think you can be born that way.
Why even let someone live if they have 'funny ears' or a 'smooth rough tongue', ready to kill at any moment?

Your ideal world is neighbors children everyone being suspicious of each other's minor physical anomalies?
What is the doctor going to do?

Here's a rare moment where we can be thankful for our current political climate.
I am wondering what kind of political climate you think would support your 'obvious' solution of tracking, identifying and isolating 'these criminals' early on.

 

And I'm not suggesting that the Black race is inferior but there is a higher percentage of blacks per capata that are looking to make the easy buck rather than working for it. I had an adopted black brother that held 5 Doctorates and I have just as much as he had when he died and I only have a formal 9th grade education (yes, I got my GED 15 years after I quit school, walked in, took it cool on a $10 bet). So we can't say that it only boils down to education (which DOESSSSSS help). So far as I'm concerned it boils down to, "Are they going to do what it takes to get the job and work hard in order to hold the job". My people didn't have money but my children thought that we were middle class when they were growing up because we were able to provide everything they needed and most of what they wanted. My wife stayed at home and raised them and I worked 2 and 3 jobs a week to provide it. That's what I mean when I am talking about attitude, you do what it takes, legally, to get where you want to go. We are looking to get a 40 foot diesel pusher motor home in the near future and have it payed off in the next 9 months. That takes planing and perseverance to accomplish. I don't know about anybody else but 75 to $80,000 is a BIG chunk of change for me. Yet, again, formally I only have a 9th grade education. If they can read they have me beaten when I started out. My young wife did teach me to read the first year we were married but without the diploma that doesn't account for squat. Until Obama came along we had our medical care planed out through the Union and now Obama-care is going to do away with that. But I still want to know, if I could see the need for my employer to provide health care and worked toward getting a job that the employer payed for it at the age of 24 why can't others that have so much more education than I do. And, yes, it all boils down to the same thing.

 

Did the black male do the crime??? If so, what's the problem???

 

Yes. I mean, isn't that what my post said?

Right. Remember where I said "surveillance, improved welfare systems, or education, take your pick?" And right after that, "I don't regard it as a big deal?" In other words, you have no idea which one I'd pick (welfare, I do lean left you know) or whether I'd even apply it at all (probably not too much, I also lean libertarian.)

In the sense that I discriminate against psychopaths irrespective of race, color, class, country, or creed, let me be clear that my remarks are inclusively discriminatory. And it isn't "horsehooey." My initial reaction to this is to go and find the individual studies establishing the biological bases of criminality and show them to you, but knowing that you refer to any scientific findings that contradict your values as "horsehooey" I'll just say you can be boring sometimes, Dorkay.

 

The feeling is mutual.

 

Doesn't surprise me; in this country Blacks are at the bottom of the social and economic ladder. Working to improve social and economic conditions for all minorities in this country should be paramount.

 

Oh well, we're too late with the sterilization. Let's hope the kids take after their mother.

 

Dude...yoiu need a shrink, STAT! How can you not appreciate this?!

 

Well that's definitely not a natural redhead.

 

None as far as I am concerned.

 

Agreed. So what should blacks do?

 

Given that the wife is a libertarian sort as well, sure, let's hope they take after her - she's prettier.

- - - Updated - - -

Easy, I don't like redheads. They are repulsive. And they typically have one hell of an attitude on them. At least the ones I have met do.

 

feels incomplete:

Yes. I mean, isn't that what my post said? Dethklok
lets look:

"A lot of very ordinary people do this kind of thing when they're poor, not only because poverty makes it a lot more attractive (to do things like cheat the electric company out of free power) but because poor people are slightly less intelligent and responsible to begin with.This kind of crime could be dealt with through surveillance, improved welfare systems, or education, take your pick. I don't regard it as a big deal, but it can grow into the next category" Dethklok

doesnt look like it

then why even mention it? And if you know victimless crimes happen with all income levels why would you lean towards welfare as a solution?

I also said it was dehumanizing and it is.
so you aren't arguing against race, you're arguing against the poor who will have minor physical abnormalities we need to track and go after but its ok because you're not saying all white or black people are criminals.

A few points you didn't respond to:

??

??

(woo hoo! I havent formatted a post like this in ages. )

I was disappointed that you backed out of the conversation because for me its almost been fun. I was hoping that there was something beyond quoting studies or that you had some understanding of what you were suggesting but it doesn't look like you did.

I don't care if you have a racist dislike for people who are poor and that want to employ some kind of dehumanizing sci fi the world is controlled by machines scenario because you believe it will end crime. I've had extra time this week (rapidly coming to a close) and I was just curious about what you were saying like on the other threads. so almost nice talking to ya.

 

That doesn't make any sense, but no surprise, coming from you.