A Progressive Utopia...

Detroit.....going.....going... ...gone. Who's next? This is what we get to look forward to all over America as the Progressive/Liberal political philosophy gains ground.

[video=youtube;4nQewOFVEAY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nQewOFVEAY&feature=yo utu.be[/video]

 

You just have to wonder if a progressive watches that Beck video as to whether they can keep denying the tragic policies of progressivism or not. Great post!

 

What policies, exactly?

Be prepared to demonstrate that these policies have only been enacted in Detroit. Otherwise, you my have to look for other possible causes for the failure of the Motor City's economy.

 

What would be a "Progressive Utopia"?

Hmmmm

Employment for all Americans capable of work.
A quality education for every American child.
First world medical care for all Americans.
Americans being judged by the performance and character, not their skin color, religion, ethnicity and who they find attractive.
Personal freedom as long as it doesn't violate the Constitution or someone elses freedom.
Opportunity for all Americans.
A government that acts on behalf of citizens, not corporations or unions.

 

Hmmmm

Employment for all Americans capable of work. (The progressives are more worried about illegal aliens finding work)
A quality education for every American child. (Yes, our public school system is so good)
First world medical care for all Americans. (Obamacare? LOL!!!!)
Americans being judged by the performance and character, not their skin color, religion, ethnicity and who they find attractive. (Say that to Obama, Holder, Sharpton and Jackson. Can you say Zimmerman?)
Personal freedom as long as it doesn't violate the Constitution or someone elses freedom. (Obama does not believe in personal freedoms or the Constitution)
Opportunity for all Americans. (Yes it would be nice, but we have an Administration more interested in illegal aliens) (Let the free market soar)
A government that acts on behalf of citizens, not corporations or unions. (This is certainly NOT the Obama Administration)

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The greedy UAW is much to blame in Detroit going bye-bye.

 

If a company fails then look to its management to find out why. If you continue to blame the workers and their representatives then you are doomed to failure because you haven't identified the real causes of a collapse.

 

American auto manufacturers could no longer compete due to high wages and pensions imposed by the unions. So yes, its the workers' fault that GM and Chrysler failed and needed a bail-out.

 

Imposed? But isn't there a process of collective bargaining that leads to agreements on labour contracts? That seems to be a cooperative approach to me, certainly not an imposition. What do you think?

And just on that, as I understand it in US labour relations a union will bargain on health insurance for its members (very handy recruitment tool) from the employer. When it's agreed and settled it's not an imposition because a percentage of the wage rate is used to purchase the health insurance.

I think the process is that the unions take the money and use it for health insurance. If that's correct then workers pay for their own health insurance, it's not provided to them by the employer or the unions at no cost. I would think whoever controls that money might get a heft bit of dough from the interest.

I seem to recall that health insurance costs were a major factor in GM going bad. Is that right? If so then that's where a single-payer system would have done a lot for the company and the workers but if the unions control the health insurance money then it wouldn't be such a good deal for them and they'd probably oppose it I suppose. Anyway a single-payer system would have shifted the cost burden of health care for workers to the single-payer scheme and may have given the company a huge break. The percentage agreed as health insurance could be excised from the labour contract without hurting the workers but it would have really cut wage costs for the company.

Now see what I mean about not simply blaming unions? And if you want to bring up some sort of scenario where the unions held a gun at the head of management then think again. If management isn't smart enough to get a deal that helps the company then get rid of those negotiators and use competent people. And if the unions are holding a gun to the head of management and are not so much too competent but can use enough muscle to force the employer to pay unrealistic rates that will damage the company and send it bankrupt thereby condemning workers to unemployment, then the union people doing that need to be booted out of office by their members because they're not doing anyone a favour.

Unions in the US are largely business unions. They're not inclined to ideology. Not for them the pursuit of socialism in a capitalist society, heck they're facilitating capitalism and making it work for the benefit (most of the time) for workers who otherwise would have no bargaining power with the employer. But this is also damaging to capitalism because you get all these big unions negotiating with various companies – many of whom will be in competition with each other but with workers covered by the one union that is bargaining with other companies – where the unions are only interested in the best deal for their members so that the union officials keep their jobs, without regard for the longer term wellbeing of the companies employing their members. And where you get a single industry union like the UAW you hand over a crushing amount of power to a single union in a single industry which has lots of different employers.

But unions aren't stupid, they'll negotiate cuts in the wage rates and benefits if the employers shows they are necessary. I recall a documentary from some years ago which showed how the CAW broke away from the UAW over negotiations in which the UAW wanted to get the Canadian workers at a plant in Oshawa I think it was (the film showed negotiations under way at the FairmontHotel in Toronto – very nice, very luxurious). The Canadian chief negotiator fought with the UAW bosses who out and out threatened him. Upshot was the Canadians got an increase in their rate while the US workers got a cut, courtesy of the Detroit-based UAW. The CAW was formed as a breakaway from the UAW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Offer

http://www.nfb.ca/film/final_offer

Things just aren't so simple that one single cause of an industry's collapse can be sheeted home to one group.

 

Yes its imposed. The auto unions threatened strikes, which would destroy an auto company if it didn't bargain. That's called "collective bargaining" but it is, in effect, legalized extortion..

Now the American auto companies can't compete, and two out of three of them became nationalized and now the taxpayers foot the bill.

 

Lets see Chicago has an unpaid pension of around $30 million around the same as Detroit. Their credit rating was down grades again and they are even closing schools. Progressive Mecca
LA is also in the same boat. Unpaid pensions near the same. Even legalizing weed hasn't helped. There is no other source of income in the seeable future. They also may not be for behind. Another progressive Mecca. All have been ran by liberals for many years.

 

You can massacre my list however you want.

I am telling you what this progressive believes would be utopia and frankly this is what I believe all liberals actually want.

 

That's an extremely dishonest thread. We have progressive utopias in San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, etc. that are much better than the conservative utopias in Mississippi and Alabama.

 

Imposed? You insist on calling capitulation an imposition by the unions? Strikes don't destroy auto companies, they reduce production and attack the income of the company which is what a strike is intended to do. A company has options to deal with strikes, if it chooses to capitulate rather than manage the process properly then why blame the unions? Isn't there binding arbitration? Haven't you heard of lockouts?

And where the companies nationalised or merely funded for a while? If the companies are nationalised doesn't that mean the government gets the profits?

 

Big broad brush there. It seems that all over the US cities and towns are going bankrupt. But you see the cause as being "liberal" government? Could it be inept management? Could is also be a reduction in the tax base? Take what is virtually a single-industry city like Detroit - the industry goes bad so there's unemployment and the income for the city government is massively reduced. Whoever is running Detroit has to accept that they're going to run out of money if they don't manage the decline successfully and this applies regardless of ideology.

Remember when the US steel industry was threatened by smaller more efficient plants in S. Korea and Japan? Towns in the steel belt were beset by unemployment because the big steel companies had been outsmarted by their international competitors - they were plodding along with old production methods using even older plants and were stunned when their competitors could produce high quality steel at a lower price due to overall superior efficiency. Again management was found wanting. But you'll probably blame the over-paid steelworkers eh?

This is a bigger crisis for the US than you think and if you believe the cause is down to "liberals" in city government then you're in for a very rude surprise.

 

Sure, a company can be mismanaged, but the UAW was/is destructive.

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Not to mention less and less people paying into the system, and more and more taking from it...Obamatopia.

 

Everyone has the opportunity in the United States to better themselves. Many go out and seize opportunity. Too many folks want it handed to them. That's the difference between conservatives and liberals.

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Sure, there are bad areas all over, but most of the big cities facing financial burdens are run by Democrats.

 

And the support for this claim is......?

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So what? Your posts are devoid of any attempt at supporting your claims.

 

Don’t cry for me Argentina
The truth is I never left you
All through my wild days
My mad existence

 

Always nice to see capitalism failing.

Why Detroit is not bailed out?

 

Progressives think they can fix to much with government force and like hoarders they have a hard time letting things they like go. The result is they spend to much on benefits, government jobs when things are good and wait to long to scale back when times get tough resulting in more pain then they anticipate.

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Progressives think they can fix to much with government force and like hoarders they have a hard time letting things they like go. The result is they spend to much on benefits, government jobs when things are good and wait to long to scale back when times get tough resulting in more pain then they anticipate.

 

Mississippi sends more of its high school graduates to college now then any other state now that they are republican. Things have changed, the Dems only run the bad parts of those states, in the very liberal black belt of the south.

San Francisco is heavy in debt, the middle class is fleeing, and they are on the verge of bankruptcy in a town of 1%ers. Portland and Seattle are also in major debt and heading that way.

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They were already bailed out. Obama saved Detroit, every news organization was sure of this and campaigned hard on the issue all last year up to the election. You must have missed it.

 

The evidence speaks for itself. The car companies have to add to the price of the cars to cover labor costs imposed by the unions. Foreign competitors sell more cars. The U.S. manufacturers suffer. As far as areas run by Democrats are concerned, that is also obvious. Just look at California, and how far in the hole they are. It is the most Democratic State there is. Most large cities, run by Democrats, are not doing well. Chicago, with its Democratic leaders and gun control freaks, is a dangerous place with big money problems.

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Capitalism is what built this great country. It is the liberal/progressive movement, over-regulation and other ridiculous laws that are tearing it down.

 

I love the fact that Jay Z will boycott Florida but will go to Cuba on an educational trip right. The man is so consumed with learning he takes educational trips during his wife's anniversary.
So Florida is a terrible place
Cuba a great haven for freedom and human rights. http://cubatruthproject.blogspot.com/2008/01/crimes-of-fidel-castro.html?m=1
More progressive hypocrisy.

 

There are no "conservative" utopias!!!!!

I'm going to type this very slowly (I know, it doesn't make a difference).. Conservatives don't believe in Utopia through any conceivable form of government--THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! (And Progressives/Leftists DO.)

Oooffaaa.

 

You better check again about Alabama. There are a couple of cities that are under water there also. Didn't Jefferson county file bankruptcy in 2011?
Didn't Birmingham also file chapter 9?