Prevent another Holocaust?

Generally the numbers are not exaggerated. Not for the number of jews, nor the number of other groups that died in ww2.

you are correct that the majority jews et.al. died of starvation and disease.
However, you are totally wrong about the rarity of gassings, shootings, hangings and beatings.
You are also wrong about when the vast majority of these murders took place. The "final solution" implemented thru aktion Reinhard was over by 1943. The Einsatzgruppen murders of jews in russia, poland and the baltics were pretty much over by 43 as well.

you appear to lack a considerable amount of knowledge of what transpired in ww2.

 

Then what happened to the approximately 5.5 million Jews who disappeared off of the face of the earth between the census of 1939 and 1949?

Absolute nonsense, the overwhelming majority died by gassing which was followed by shooting and then intentional starvation and forced labor would fall into a distant third, I will only comment on the assertion regarding disease as the suicide assertion is just laughable:

So it is your assertion that 80,000 per month were dying of typhus and starvation? This letter regarding cremation capacity:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/

was from January of 1943, the typhus epidemic had been eliminated during a delousing program in August of 1942.

And funny that while the inmates who were selected for extermination immediately upon arrival were not registered, of those who were registered and issued death certificates very few died of typhus putting an end to the typhus myth:

In 1989, the Auschwitz Archives in Moscow were opened for the first time since the Soviets liberated the camp in January 1945. These archives contain thousands of documents which survived destruction by the camp authorities when they fled the advancing Soviet forces. Among the items discovered were the Auschwitz Death Books. These books contain the death certificates of registered prisoners only. Nonregistered prisoners who were killed upon arrival did not receive a death certificate. The death books are incomplete. They contain the certificates of 68,864 registered prisoners who died from August 1941 to December 1943.There are no books for 1944 or periods prior to August 1941.They are either missing or were destroyed. Also, there are a number of missing books for the period August 1941 to December 1943. However, each book contains between 1400 and 1500 entries. [29] By interpolating 1500 entries into each missing death book we can arrive at approximately 80,000 deaths of registered prisoners for 1942 and 1943. [30] Dr. Tadeusz Paczula, a former Auschwitz inmate, was in the camp from 1940. He also kept the death registries for registered inmates. He later testified that for the two years following the summer of 1942, about 130,000 names were entered into the death registries. [31]

Nevertheless, the nearly 69,000 death certificates available afford researchers the opportunity to see exactly what was killing registered prisoners. It is now known on the basis of these certificates that very few prisoners died from typhus. [32] They show that only 2060 of the 68,864 deaths were from typhus. While typhus can be lethal, it need not necessarily be so. Lucie Adelsberger, a Jewish prisoner and camp doctor, got typhus, was quarantined, and resumed her duties after recovery. [33] Similarly, Ella Lingens Reiner, a German doctor, who was also a prisoner, contracted typhus and survived. [34] One of the early Auschwitz memoirs, written in 1947, recounts an episode with camp doctor Josef Mengele, later to become known as the "Angel of Death" for his medical experiments. Mengele was disturbed about the typhus epidemic. The former prisoner wrote: "Alas, typhus epidemics did rage in the camp, but at this time we had comparatively few victims. The same day he [Mengele] sent us a large quantity of serum and directed mass vaccinations." [35] Petro Mirchuk, a Ukranian prisoner, wrote that a delousing in August 1942, the worst month of the epidemic, "eliminated the epidemic and the billions of fleas and lice ceased to exist." [36]

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

Furthermore; if only 130,000 people were even granted death certificates at Auschwitz then why would they need a crematoria capacity of more than 80,000 per month? It makes no sense. The highest number of registered inmates at Auschwitz ever was in 1944 at 92,000 so are you seriously going to argue that they needed a cremation capacity of more than 80,000 per month with ovens with 52 muffles in the Krematoria at Auschwitz each with a 2 - 3 body capacity, but let's say 2, and the burn rate for each muffle is appx. 45 minutes (let's say an hour) so using those figures and allowing 4 hours of downtime per day we come to a burn rate of 2080 bodies incinerated per day (52 muffles x 2 bodies x 20 hours) and a per month burn rate of 62,400. Once again the highest level of registered prisoners ever at Auschwitz was 92,000 in 1944, so are you people honestly going to assert that a cremation capacity capable of burning 2/3's of the camps registered population in a month was necessary unless they were killing unregistered inmates immediately upon entrance into the camps? That simply does not hold water.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/Furn-cap.shtml

 

[MENTION=61753]Face, Your[/MENTION] that statement was fake according to Cole himself. I'm not surprised, since you've already proven that you are not above using fake evidence to prove your points.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/03/gop-party-animal-unmasked-as-holocaust-revisionist/

 

Junior denialist? Haha, I'll take that. I am . I've seen enough evidence to convince me that the official story is not true. The pile of evidence to the contrary from Cole's physical expose' of the alleged gas chambers (which I've posted), to the Holocaust industries many exposed lies (such as the ones in the Last Days which I've posted and no one here has refuted). The only thing you people have left is a few flimsy documents and confessions (all of which contain evidence of fraudulence) which were obtained under God- knows exactly what circumstances.

 

there's a good denialist.

You are playing it exactly like the playbook says.

Then only thing we have left are thousands of trial transcripts, tens of thousands of eyewitness accounts, thousands of actual nazi confessions, hundreds of thousands of documents/photos/films, existing installation remains, forensic reports, enormous piles of bodies, tons of human ash, hundreds of professional historian accounts. Of course after that, there isn't much.

Cole recanted, resurfaced and is still a dork. if his fallacious videos are enough to convince you of the non-existence of the gas chambers then I have some excellent water front property in the heart of the okeefenokee I can let you have cheap.

If Leuchter's amateur hour "report" was enough to convince you there were no gas chambers at aushwitz, just delousing chambers, then I have this really great bridge in Brooklyn that I can let you have for a song.

If Krege's non=existent gpr report of treblinka is enough to convince you that treblinka was not an extermination camp, then I have these Ralex watches that cost thousands retail that I can let you have for $25 each.

If faurisson's renaisance poetry inspired account of aushwitz is enough to convince you that there were no gas chambers or final solution, then I can let you have the Ives St. Larent designer handbags for $15 dollars each.

If Ball's ridiculous "look in the wrong place" baba yar aerial photo analysis convinces you that the einsatsgruppen didn't machine gun tnes of thousands of jews, then I have a pair of tickets to see Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper in concert that I can let you have for $50 each.

I've been at this for a number of years. I am familiar with virtually every piece of "evidence" the denialist movement has amassed. I am familiar with every debate technique, since they so conveniently have published playbooks. I am familiar with nearly all the major denialists players. I have read many of their papers and books.

There isn't a denialist argument you can put forward that I can't shred. ITs all been done countless times before. Out of all that there is one consistent observation that demonstrates both the intellectual bankruptcy of denialism and the intransigent racism of denialism and that is an utter failure to deal with the actual facts.

Seems the truth just bounces off most denialists foreheads. they might go a little cross-eyed, but they cling to their faith as fervently as the most fanatic religionist, even when their entire hypothesis is stripped naked of all the lies and distortion to reveal the tiniest kernel of truth.

Even your above response is right out of the playbook.

Denialist tactic #2. Heads-I-Win-Tails-You-Lose -- Demand that all evidence for the Holocaust be proved genuine (dodging any discussion of what that proof would consist of), and also demand that all your unsubstantiated assertions be proved false. That way, you never bear any burden of proof. (originally posted by Mike Stein)

Denialist tactic #11. The Great Leap -- This tactic goes like this: If one piece of testimony about the Holocaust seems unreliable, then ALL testimony about the Holocaust is unreliable. If one Holocaust witness may have recanted something on the stand, then all other Holocaust witnesses are liars. If some camp prisoners did not starve to death, then NONE of them starved to death. etc. But be careful. This is a double-edged sword -- someone may use the well-documented lies of other revisionists to conclude that YOU are a liar as well.

 

lol, David Cole who completely recanted all of his holocaust denial as the lies that they were and in antithesis to neo-Nazi conspiracy theorists is alive and well living under the assumed name of David Stein:


This statement is given in an attempt to set the record
straight about my current views regarding the Holocaust and
Holocaust denial. As anyone who follows the subject of
Holocaust denial knows, from 1991 until 1994 I was well
known in the movement as a Jewish Holocaust denier [a
self-described "revisionist"]. For the last three years I
have no longer been associated with this movement, having
realized that I was wrong and that the path I was taking
with my life was self-destructive and hurtful to others. I
have spent the last few years in silence on the subject of
my time with the denial movement, a silence caused mainly by
my shame at what I had done with my life and my desire to
distance myself from that life.

However, in that shame-induced silence, it has now been
brought to my attention that I have not gone as far as I
should have to make a clear and complete public statement in
order to set the record straight as to where I stand.

It is my great hope that this statement accomplishes that
task.

I would like to state for the record that there is no
question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe's
Jews during World War Two, the Nazis employed gas chambers
in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps
in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in
gas chambers which employed such poison gasses as Zyklon B
and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the
gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is
overwhelming and unmistakable.

The Nazis intended to kill all the Jews of Europe, and the
final death toll of this attempted genocide was six million.
This atrocity, unique in its scope and breadth, must never
be forgotten.

During my four years as a denier, I was wracked with
self-hate and loathing, a afact that many of my critics were
quick to point out. Indeed, this self-hatred was obvious to
most, but I was too blind to see it. The hate I had for
myself I took out on my people. I was seduced by
pseudo-historical nonsense and clever-sounding but empty
ideas and catch-phrases. When my eyes were finally opened,
thanks to several good, kind friends who had refused to give
up on me even when I was at my worst, I was horrified at
what I had done. My instinct was to flee and never look
back, but I now understand that I owe it to the people I
wronged to make a forceful repudiation of my earlier views.
I also owe a very large apology, not only to the many people
I enraged, and to the friends and family I hurt, but
especially to the survivors of the Holocaust, who deserve
only our respect and compassion, not re-victimization.

Therefore, to all of the above people, let me offer my most
humble and very, very sincere apology. I am sorry for what I
did, and I am sorry for the hurt I caused.

And just as I must set the record straight concerning my
views, it is also incumbent on me to set the record
straight regarding the video "documentaries" and media
appearances I did from 1991 to 1994. These "documentaries"
are merely videotaped garbage filled with self-hatred and
pseudo-intellectual nonsense. My "media appearances" were
nothing but an embarrassment. My glazed look, specious
reasoning, and talking-in-circles during my talk show
appearances would have hopefully alerted any astute views
that this was a man not in touch with reality.

It has been brought to my attention that Bradley Smith is
still using one of my videos in advertisements he is running
on college campuses. Therefore, I would like to make these
additional points: This video is being advertised without my
consent, and I denouce this video as being without worth.
Bradley Smith is no historian, and denial is no "historical
field." Students on college campuses should look elsewhere
to find out about the Holocaust. To these students I would
say, look to books like Professor Raul Hilberg's
"Destruction of the European Jews," Leni Yahil's "The
Holocaust," and Lucy Dawidowicz's "The War Against the Jews"
for correct information. If your school library doesn't
stock these books, have them order copies. Do not pay any
attention to any "David Cole" videos, except to rightly
denounce them as frauds.

I am thankful for being given the opportunity to make this
statement. This statement is made freely and under no
duress, and is quite willingly, even happily, given to Mr.
Irv Rubin of the Jewish Defense League for the widest
possible distribution. This statement is the most current
and accurate compilation of my views, and it supersedes any
previous writings, videos, or statements. It is my hope that
there will be no more confusion as to where I stand. I thank
you for letting me set the record straight.


[/s] David Cole

Subscribed and sworn to before me on January 5, 1998.

[/Mary Stewart]

[Notary seal]


http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/c/cole.david/cole.recants


Hollywood conservative unmasked as notorious Holocaust revisionist

Republican Party Animals operator David Stein says he is really David Cole, and that he still holds controversial views


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/03/david-stein-cole-holocaust-revisionist


You know how you can tell if you're losing an argument? When you're forced to leave the debate and let youtube videos make your arguments for you.

Complete strawman, no one has ever used that movie as their primary evidence for the holocaust having occurred.

And by this you mean the authenticated Nazi documents; such as, the Einsatzgruppen reports which list in detail the numbers of people killed, where they were killed, and whether they were women, children, Jews, or partisans.

And by this you mean the testimonies that you can't even begin to address of the Nazi's who of their own volition came forward to acknowledge the holocaust and who have to this day not recanted said testimony. Furthermore; you can not address the World Almanac statistical comparisons and I haven't even brought up the mass graves that were found at the extermination camps including at Belzec:

Mattogno claims that of the 33 mass graves found by Kola that only Graves 3, 10 and 20 contain a shallow layer of unburned bodies at the very bottom. He concludes that the "only legitimate conclusion one can draw" is that there are "only rare corpses here and there" totaling "at most several hundred corpses." 4


What Mattogno does not tell the reader is:

Grave 3 is 16 meters long by 15 meters wide by 5 meters deep (about 52 feet by 50 feet by 16 feet.)
Grave 10 is 24 meters long by 18 meters wide by 5 meters deep (about 78 feet by 59 feet by 16 feet.)
Grave 20 extends outside the current camp boundaries and so could not be completely measured. The part that could be measured is 26 meters long by 11 meters wide by 5 meters deep (85 feet by 36 feet by 16 feet).

It is absurd to believe that the Germans would have dug such large, deep graves (about the height of a two-story house) with heavy excavating equipment and then laid only one or two layers of bodies on the very bottom of each before covering them up.

More dishonestly, Mattogno fails to mention at all that Graves 1, 4, 13, 25, 27, 28 and 32 also contain unburned remains.

Therefore, out of 10 graves that held whole human remains, Mattogno only acknowledges 3 of them.


However, even Kola’s careful examination does not reveal exactly how many bodies might be in the mass graves because he took great care not to drill through layers of whole bodies if he could avoid it. For instance, in Kola discontinued drilling in Grave 4 when he hit a layer of whole human bodies.5 Therefore, in that grave we do not know how thick that layer was. Recall that mapping the depth and volume of the graves was not Kola’s brief-he was to determine where the mass graves were so they could be respected in the final memorial design.
Why are there any whole human remains in the mass graves at all if they were all incinerated?

We cannot say for sure why they are there but it is reasonable to suppose that:

After long months of exhuming and burning the bodies, the Germans wanted to finish the job and get out of that backward and miserable place as quickly as possible. Despite their desire to eliminate the evidence of mass murder, leaving some bodies 25 feet below the surface probably did not seem like a very big risk.
The condition of the bodies at the bottom of the graves is so terrible that the Germans-even though their Jewish slaves did the work-might not have been able to face exhuming them.

Claim 2: The amount of ashes and bone fragments in the mass graves is very small.

It would also be best for the Holocaust deniers’ "transit camp" theory if there were not a substantial amount of human ashes or fragments of bone or teeth in the graves either-or at least very little. So it should not be surprising that Mattogno claims that the graves contain "only a very thin layer of sand and ash" which is " absolutely incompatible with the cremation of 600,000 corpses." 6


But Mattogno is wrong: the layers of ash and bone in the graves are not "very thin" at all. Here are some examples. 


Grave 5 contains "pieces of burnt human bones so densely packed together that the drill could not penetrate further." The grave is 32 meters long by 10 meters wide by 4.50 meters deep (about 105 feet by 33 feet by 15 feet).
Grave 6 is 30 meters long by 10 meters wide by 4 meters deep (about 99 feet by 33 feet by 13 feet). It contains "carbonized wood and pieces of fragments of burnt human bones. At the east end of the grave, the ground is covered with gray sand containing a mixture of crushed pieces of burnt and unburned pieces of human bones."
Graves 3, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33 all contain fragments of burnt human bones, human ashes and carbonized wood.
Grave 14 is the largest in the camp. It contains "burnt pieces of human bones and fragments of carbonized wood mixed with grey sandy soil to a depth of 5 meters." That is about 16 feet deep. No matter how much Mattogno wants it to be, a 5 meter thick (16 feet) layer of ash is not a "thin layer" of ashes.
The ashes and bone remnants are not just in the graves either. Kola’s team found them mixed with sand on the surface and scattered all around the mass graves. They can be seen by the human eye even today.

The above facts are devastating to Mattogno’s theory about Belzec being a transit camp and explains why he does not even mention them at all.
Kola’s report was written in Polish but you may read the English translation of portions of it and see the detailed map of the mass graves found on the site and the meticulous diagrams of the dimensions and contents of the mass graves at.


http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/carlo-mattogno-on-belzec.html

 

Deflect using holocaust inconsistencies as an excuse to spam, rather than admit that not only can Jews be victims they can also be the biggest mass murders in modern history every bit as bad if not worse than the Nazis. They set the tone for it in Russia and tried to bring it to the German people, it wouldve appeared fair game since nobody then or now really cares about their crimes to humanity.

 

By fake he means that he didn't mean what he said in his letter, the only thing you have done is proven that Cole is a liar, regardless every single one of his points has been completely debunked, and I'm not going to sit here and debate a youtube video point for point especially when said points come from a self confessed liar, here's a thought though, why don't you make your own damn argument? I'll venture to guess that you are intentionally incapable of doing so which like most of the denialists on this forum must resort to spamming youtube videos.

You are completely FOS, I completely debunked your revisionist claims of forgeries, they have been authenticated by the authors themselves! I'm not going to rehash every laughable attempt at rebuttal that you made as I have already done that within the post which you have not responded too, needless to say not a single word you staid stands up to the slightest bit of scrutiny or research.

 

No, I'm absolutely right. First, the often quoted number of six million is an inflated estimation. The most commonly accepted number of Jews who died in the war (so conveniently altered to Jews murdered in the Holocaust) is actualy 5,850,000, but then even that is rounded up, which is itself an exageration, so both numbers you hear are exaggerated. Neither accounts for the dwindling population (people don't reproduce as quickly during war), and so there was actually a negative population growth for most countries involved before accounting for deaths in the war, so the number is inflated even further. Then, as I said, the vast majority of Jewish deaths were due to starvation and disease. (also note that most estimates are simply an estimate of population changes, not cause - these estimates of the Holocaust often include 1,000,000 killed in the Soviet Union, mostly by the Soviets, but who are somehow included in the idea people have that the Germans just executed people en masse)

That's why, in reality, the number 'murdered' should be marked around 500,000, with an annotation that not all of the roughly 500,000 executed were executed simply because they were Jews. That's just dishonest, and requires that you bury the memory of men like Bonhoeffer, who were executed for quietly opposing the ruling party, despite their being white, blue-eyed blonds from well-respected and influential German families, and despite having been so well respected by the Nazis that they were asked to take leadership roles in their respective fields. All they did was oppose the ruling party, and that was enough to be executed.

I said the relative rarity. Yes, if the majority of Jews who died died of starvation of disease, than those who were executed were a statistical minority. period.

No, I'm not wrong. Mass executions, as I said, were a relative rarity. Unfortunately, you lack a considerable amount of knowledge of reading, which is maybe why you're arguing a point that wasn't made when you have already said I was essentially right. I said, "Most Jews who died did so in the later years, when the Germans had become stretched thin and were low on supplies. Not a huge shocker."

 

Actually, the figures I've seen estimate just over 4 million Jews were gassed, about 400,000 were directly killed the lower tech way (shot, hung, beaten to death), maybe 100,00 or so killed themselves, and the rest (just under a million or so) succumbed to starvation and/or disease FORCED UPON THEM BY THE NAZIS (the large majority of those deaths being in the camps).

The really revealing statistic is the very low percentage of child survivors of the Holocaust and the disproportionate number who were victims of the gas chambers. Their lives had no utility to the Nazis, so they were usually disposed of quickly. I wonder how Holocaust deniers can weasel around that fact.

 

Unfortunately you have difficulty reading. Yes, Jews were executed - suppositions made from camp accounts, based on the assumption that they are inaccurate, are inherently flawed. So try responding to something I actually mentioned.

 

the number six million has always been an estimate, but why not split hairs. I will agree a great many of the jewish deaths were thru starvation, overwork, neglect and disease, but you exaggerate when you claim the "vast" majority. Well over three million jews were deliberately murdered.

I am well aware of german dissidents and the fact that not all germans were nazis, but political executions of anti-nazis is irrelevant to this particular discussion.

As for you 500,000 number you are simply wrong.

The Einsatzgruppen killed over a million soviet jews, along with tens of thousands of Soviet political commissars, partisans, Roma, and institutionalized disabled persons.

Aktion Reinhard murdered well over a million jews.

Then there were the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Majdenek etc that murdered at least a million jews.

It is you that is badly misinformed. or deliberately obfuscating.

Millions of jews were deliberately murdered. Most of those murders transpired during the "final solution" which essentially ended by 1943.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005189

Nice try, but according to the accepted historical narrative you are simply wrong. It may be helpful for you to actually do some reading on the subject before expressing such an incorrect opinion - or do you have actual sources that substantiate your claims?

 

Not really, the proof supplied by another racist are based on lack of evidence and not by new evidence that contredicts what real scholars - including the Germans themselvs - support.

and here is a picture of an original doc with the numbers tou deny, Wannsee Conference House Memorial :



Freedom of speech is one thing, making ppl stupid is another which is why such denyal crap is illegal in many states.

 

I addressed your assertion regarding disease, the typhus epidemic had been nearly eliminated in August of '42, the records demonstrate clearly that typhus was a minor cause of death even amongst those who were granted death certificates rather than immediately killed upon entrance to the camps, the fact is that 2/3 of those Jews who entered the camps were selected for immediate extermination and never registered as inmates, the remaining 1/3 who were selected for forced labor would have been those who experienced death by starvation and disease so your assertion regarding the majority of holocaust dead not being the result of systematic extermination is a falsehood based on absolutely nothing.

If only 130,000 people were even granted death certificates at Auschwitz then why would they need a crematoria capacity of more than 80,000 per month? It makes no sense. The highest number of registered inmates at Auschwitz ever was in 1944 at 92,000, if the vast majority of Jews who entered the camps were not selected for immediate extermination why did they need a cremation capacity of more than 80,000 per month with ovens with 52 muffles in the Krematoria at Auschwitz each with a 2 - 3 body capacity (let's say 2) with a burn rate for each muffle of appx. 45 minutes (let's say an hour) allowing for 4 hours of down time per day bringing us to a burn rate of 2080 bodies incinerated per day (52 muffles x 2 bodies x 20 hours) and a per month burn rate of 62,400?

Once again the highest level of registered prisoners ever at Auschwitz was 92,000 in 1944, so are you people honestly going to assert that a cremation capacity capable of burning 2/3's of the camps registered population in a month was necessary if they were not killing unregistered inmates immediately upon entrance into the camps? That simply does not hold water.

If you decide to continue down this line of argument then you need to provide evidence towards that effect from a reputable source or I will invoke rule 10.

 

This is a lie based on nothing the approximately 1 million Jews killed in the Soviet Union were killed in the rear actions of the Einsatzgruppen in Nazi occupied territory, there is no use lying we have the Einsatzgruppen Special Reports to the RSHA detailing the targeting of Jews, the dates of the killings, where they were killed, and how many, which are available in their totality here:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/sitreptoc.html

Provide evidence for your assertions in line with rule 10.

 

The Jews were specifically singled out for extermination because of their blood their race, the Jews were killed because they were Jews, period!


Q. What were these orders?

A. These orders had as their purpose to make it as easy as possible for the unfortunate victim and to prevent the brutality of the men from leading to inevitable excesses. Thus I first ordered that only so many victims should be brought to the place of execution as the execution commandos could handle. Any individual action by any individual man was forbidden. The Einsatzkommandos shot in a military manner only upon orders. It was strictly ordered to avoid any maltreatment, undressing was not permitted. The taking of any personal possessions was not permitted. Publicity was not permitted, and at the very moment when it was noted that a man had experienced joy in carrying out these executions, it was ordered that this man should never participate in any more executions. The men could not report voluntarily, they were ordered.
Q. Why did you not prevent the liquidations?

A. Even if I use the most severe standard in judging this, I had as little possibility as any of the codefendants here to prevent this order. There was only one thing, a senseless martyrdom through suicide, senseless because this would not have changed anything in the execution of this order, for this order was not an order of the SS, it was an order of the Supreme Commander in Chief and the Chief of State; it was not only carried out by Himmler or Heydrich. The army had to carry it out too, the High Command of the Army as well as the commanders in the east and southeast who were the superior commanders for the Einsatzgruppen and Einsatzkommandos. If I could imagine a theoretical possibility, then there was only the refusal on the part of those persons who were in the uppermost hierarchy and could appeal to the Supreme Commander and Chief of State, because they had the only possibility of getting access to him. They were, after all, the highest bearers of responsibility in the theater of operations.

Q. Did you not try in Nikolaev to dissuade the Reich Leader SS from this order?

A. The situation in Nikolaev was especially depressing in a moral sense, because in agreement with the army, we had excluded a large number of Jews, the farmers, from the executions. When the Reich Leader SS was in Nikolaev on 4 or 5 October, I was reproached for this measure and he ordered that henceforth, even against the will of the army, the executions should take place as planned. When the Reich Leader SS arrived at my headquarters, I had assembled all available commanders of my Einsatzgruppe. The Reich Leader addressed these men and repeated the strict order to kill all those groups which I have designated. He added that he alone would carry the responsibility, as far as accounting to the Fuehrer was concerned. None of the men would bear any responsibility, but he demanded the execution of this order, even though he knew how harsh these measures were. Nevertheless, after supper, I spoke to the Reich Leader and I pointed out the inhuman burden which was being imposed on the men in killing all these civilians. I didn't even get an answer.

Q. Now, I cannot pronounce it correctly, the Karaims were another sect whom you encountered in the south of Russia, and this sect had no Jewish blood, but it did share the religious confessions of the Jews. Is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. You submitted to Berlin the question whether the Karaims should be killed, and I understood you to say that the order you got from Berlin was you shall not kill them for they have nothing in common with the Jews except the confession?

A. Yes.

Q. Will you explain to the Court, please, what difference there was between the Karaims and the Krimchaks, except Jewish blood ?

A. I understand your question completely in reference to the eastern Jews, in the case of the Jews who were found in the eastern campaign. These Jews were to be killed-according to the order-for the reason that they were considered carriers of bolshevism, and, therefore, considered as endangering the security of the German Reich. This concerned the Jews who were found in Russia, and it was not known to me that the Jews in all of Europe were being killed, but on the contrary I knew that down to my dismissal these Jews were not killed, but it was attempted at all costs to get them to emigrate. The fact that the Karaims were not killed showed that the charge of the prosecution that persons were persecuted for their religion is not correct, for the Karaims had that Jewish religion, but they could not be killed because they did not belong to the Jewish race.

Q. I think, Witness, you answered exactly what I had antici-

*Sect which refused the Talmud and adopted the Old Testament as sole source of faith.
**Turkish Jews of mixed Semitic and Tartaric blood.

Page 275

pated in the last sentence, "They did not belong to the JewishRace," is that right?

A. Yes, That is right.

Q. They were found in Russia?

A. Yes.

Q. But they participated in the Jewish confession in Russia?

A. The Karaims had the Jewish faith, yes.

Q. But your race authorities in Berlin could find no trace of Jewish blood in them?

A. Yes.

Q. So they came absolutely under the Fuehrer Decree or the Streckenbach Order to kill all Jews?

A. Yes.

Q. Because of blood?

A. Because they were of Jewish origin. For you must understand the Nazi ideology, as you call it. It was the opinion of the Fuehrer that in Russia and in bolshevism, the representatives of this blood showed themselves especially suitable for this idea, therefore, the carriers of this blood became especially suitable representatives of the bolshevism. That is not on account of their faith, or their religion, but because of their human make-up and character.

Q. And because of their blood, right?

A. I cannot express it any more definitely than I stated, from their nature and their characteristics. Their blood, of course, has something to do with it, according to National Socialist ideology.

Q. Let's see, if I can understand it; we've got a lot of time, I hope. What was the distinction except blood?

A. Between whom?

B. Between the Karaims and the Krimchaks?

A. The difference of the blood, yes.

Q. Only the difference in blood, is that so?

A. Yes.

Q. So the criterion and the test which you applied in your slaughter was blood?

A. The criteria which I used were the orders which I got, and it has not been doubted during the entire trial, that in this
Fuehrer Order the Jews were designated as the ones who belonged to that circle in Russia and who were to be killed.

Q. Tell us how orders that you operated under in 1941 in Russia differed from the order which controlled killing of Jews in Poland in 1939 ?

A. In Poland individual actions had been ordered, while in Russia, during the entire time of the commitment, the killing of all Jews had been ordered. Special actions in Poland had been ordered, whose contents I do not know in detail.

COL. AMEN: Were all victims, including the men, women, and children executed in the same manner?

OHLENDORF: Until the spring of 1942, yes. Then an order came from Himmler that in the future women and children were to be killed only in gas vans.

COL. AMEN: How had women and children been killed previously?

OHLENDORF: In the same was as the men - by shooting.

COL. POKROVSKY: You said that mostly women and children were executed in these vans. For what reason?

OHLENDORF: That was a special order from Himmler to the effect that women and children were not to be exposed to the mental strain of the executions; and thus the men of the kommandos, mostly married men, should not be compelled to aim at women and children.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): In your testimony you said that the Einsatz group had the object of annihilating the Jews and the commissars, is that correct?

OHLENDORF: Yes.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): And in what category did you consider the children? For what reason were the children massacred?

OHLENDORF: The order was that the Jewish population should be totally exterminated.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): Including the children?

OHLENDORF: Yes.

THE TRIBUNAL (Gen. Niktchenko): Were all the Jewish children murdered?

OHLENDORF: Yes.


http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/Einsatz2c.htm
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/Ohlentestimony.html

 

Wait..
How can you say that the original number of 4 million killed at Auschwitz was never factored into the total sum of six million when Auschwitz, according to Holocaust lore, was the primary "death factory" of the entire Holocaust? How is it that when this number was revised down to 1.2 million, it didn't affect the total number allegedly killed?

How does that even make any sense? How did they get the number of six million to begin with if not from counting the total number of dead?

Are you entirely basing your numbers on the census of Jews in Europe before the war and afterwards and simply speculating that any difference in this number was do to "gas chambers?"

I need to catch up on these walls of text and eat dinner.

 

No, they were not specifically singled out, they were targeted for their race ("singled out" means just that - single"). However, (as most here have agreed) the majority of victims of the Holocaust were not murdered, but died of other causes (suicide, starvation, disease, etc.), which is exactly what I've said. period.

 

This to me is probably the most important issue from a political standpoint. Clearly Jews were targeted by the National Socialist regime, and clearly they died because of that - starvation, a gunshot, or a gas chamber all amount to the same thing. But when people place the responsibility for the disappearing Jews on Hitler's doorstep, they forget or ignore huge numbers of Jews who fled into the Soviet Union, never to be seen again.

The Soviets murdered countless innocent civilians. I say "countless" because we really don't know how many it was. The six million figure is an upper bound for the National Socialists; exaggerated not only by early estimates which were too high, but by millions for the Jews who were counted as dead but actually slipped through their fingers. Some went to America. Others went to the Soviet Union.

And just looking at the mainstream account given by Wikipedia, you'll get a sense of what happened there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

The current assessment by Russian Ministry of Defense is that total losses were 26.6 million[1] both civilians and military, with military dead being 8.7 million.[2] These figures have generally been accepted by historians.[3][4] However the figure of 8.7 million military dead has been disputed in Russia because it is in conflict with the official database of the Central Defense Ministry Archive (CDMA) which lists the names of 14 million dead and missing servicemen.[5] Some independent researchers in Russia have put total losses in the war, both civilians and military, at over 40 million.[6][7]

So what we have here is at least 8 million, and easily as many as 30 million, civilians dead at the hands of the Soviets. They starved; they were shuffled off to Siberia; they were shot; they rotted in gulags. The much more casual Marxist death machine operated on a scale and scope that outstrips the German killings by factors of two, three, four, or more.

The National Socialists get all the attention, partly because the Jewish people hate them and have a disproportionate voice in the West. But there's another reason the National Socialists get all the attention, and that is that the Soviet Union won the war, with the help of the United States. Nobody wants to admit that we fought on the side of a monster - one that killed not only countless millions of its own people, but ultimately threatened the complete annihilation of civilization through a nuclear war.

Nobody pays attention. Everybody's obsessed with Hitler, and everyone nitpicks over the deaths in Germany, and it's too bad. Talk to ex-Soviets if you can; ask the survivors about relatives they used to know before the Secret Police appeared in the night. Ask them about the elaborate bookkeeping systems used to avoid taxation in excess of income needed to stay alive. Ask them about the mishandled nuclear experiments, of which Chernobyl was the tip of a much larger iceberg. Just ask them, "Was Marxism a good idea?" They will tell you.

 

Yeah, its pretty weird. People draw attention to the fact that the number of Jews in Europe dropped by almost 6million during the war, with no accounts for those who fled, or died of any other causes (not to mention changes in population growth).

 

Their race was singled out for extermination.

This is just completely false, 2/3 of the Jews entering the camps were selected for immediate extermination, the remaining 1/3 were selected for slave labor, out of those 1/3 the effects of intentional starvation and death by exhaustion and disease would have occurred, that is not the majority, not even close, your claims of 500,000 intentionally killed is a laughable fraud as the Einstatzgrupen Operational Reports of their rear action extermination policy against the Jews show 1 million + Jews killed intentionally by shootings, hangings, etc and that is before the industrial scale extermination camps were even implemented.. You are a liar and are basing your claims on nothing but an inherent desire to absolve the Nazi's of their crimes by minimizing their extent. I am now invoking rule number 10.

 

The figures which have been presented are not of European Jewry alone they were the statistical comparisons of the GLOBAL Jewish population between 1939 and 1949.

Provide evidence for a massive Jewish exodus to the Soviet Union which could even begin to explain the disappearance of appx. 5.5 million Jews.

Provide a statistical analysis showing that a population decline of 5.5 million Jews is even remotely possible due to a natural decline in population grown attributable to war time conditions, the pre-war population of Germany for example was appx. 69 million and the combined East and Western populations of Germany were appx. 68 million, and that's with tens of millions directly killed in action.

 

Because the 6 million figure is not based on Soviet estimates but upon western estimates.

Auschwitz was only one of 6 extermination camps (Auschwitz II (Auschwitz-Birkenau), Chełmno, Belze, Majdanek, Sobib, and Treblinka) not to mention the rear action extermination campaign instituted by the Einsatzgrupen resulting in appx. 1 million dead Jews which occurred prior to the industrial scale genocide which took place at the extermination camps.

Because the 6 million figure is not based on Soviet estimates, there's really no other way to say it.

Census comparisons, the German reports E.G. the Operational Reports of the Einsatzgrupen, the analysis of other documents; such as, those regarding cremation capacity, etc. and of course there is currently a project to list the victims by name:

The Central Database of Shoah Victims’ Names currently contains 4.2 million names, including approximately two and a half million from scanned Pages of Testimony and the remainder that have been retrieved from archives and other sources. In November 2004, the Names Database was uploaded onto Yad Vashem’s website

A revolutionary milestone in Holocaust remembrance and learning, this resource provides the opportunity to submit additional names and conduct searches from any computer worldwide–enabling anyone to check whether their loved one has been memorialized–or simply to learn more about the ordinary men, women and children who fell victim to the Nazis’ genocidal policy.

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/remembrance/names/why_collect_names.asp

Since 1945, the most commonly cited figure for the total number of Jews killed has been six million. The Yad Vashem Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority in Jerusalem, writes that there is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed. The figure most commonly used is the six million attributed to Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official.[285] Early calculations range from about 4.2 to 4.5 million in The Final Solution (1953) by Gerald Reitlinger (arguing against higher Russian estimates),[286] and 5.1 million from Raul Hilberg, to 5.95 million from Jacob Lestschinsky. Yisrael Gutman and Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust estimate 5.59–5.86 million.[287] A study led by Wolfgang Benz of the Technical University of Berlin suggests 5.29–6.2 million.[288][289] Yad Vashem writes that the main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar and postwar censuses and population estimates, and Nazi documentation on deportations and murders.[288] Its Central Database of Shoah Victims' Names currently holds close to three million names of Holocaust victims, all accessible online. Yad Vashem continues its project of collecting names of Jewish victims from historical documents and individual memories.[290]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Victims_and_death_toll

 

Please show me where the Soviets originally estimated that 9 million Jews were killed which would have been the total with the additional lost three million proven to be a falsehood.

 

A minute into the video, one of the survivors says she was at AUSCHWITZ. The soccer field was right near where the supposed a gas chamber was. Are you arguing with a survivor that contradicts your holohoax assertions?