Single Payer: Why Government-Run Health Care Will Harm Both Patients and Doctors

We're still awaiting a response to post #121 from you I believe. After all it's only polite to do so. However I suspect you're incapable. Prove me wrong.

 

No one has gone bankrupt or lost their home due to a healthcare issue, unless they were unable to work because of it. And who is in debt forever to an insurance company?

I would rather be in debt to a business for a service rendered to ME than have my taxes doubled to pay for services rendered to YOU.

Typical liberal BS mindset that says everyone should get everything for free.

 

What are you talking about? So medical bankruptcies don't happen?

Why do you think people medicaid plan for ltc since ltc isn't available to all?

Wtf? You guys seem to have zero experience in the real world.

What about Ron Pual's Kent Synder?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...d-ron-paul-aide-fit-uninsured-debate-scenario

Who is going to pay that 400k bill?

 

Don't you guys complain that doctors are leaving medicare/medicaid because it doesn't pay enough?

So if medicare/medicaid operates at a much lower overhead than the private market, and the private market pays more for doctors/drugs then how does or would the private market be cheaper than medicare/medicaid?

 

1) Policy holders never had to sue insurance companies for rescinded policies?

2) Policy holders never had to sue insurance companies for denial of claims?

3) People can always get health insurance, and always have been able to get insurance, even with pre-existing conditions?

1) A tiny percentage of policies have been rescinded. And an even tinier percentage of those have resulted in lawsuits. Almost all of those lawsuits results in findings FOR the insurance company since the Insurance Governing body of the state involved has reviewed the reasons for the rescinding and found in the Insurance Company's favor, prior to any lawsuit.

The PRIME example and TYPICAL example is the one that obama LIED about. b.o.'s claim was that a man had a policy and when he got sick with Cancer they cancelled him and he died.

THE FACTS. It was a new policy, within the 2 year contestability period. [After that policies can only be rescinded for PROVEN FRAUD.] The man had FAILED to note a PRE-EXISTING condition on his application. He appealed as the pre-X had nothing to do with Cancer. The insurance co. REINSTATED him, WITHOUT being forced to do so. b.o. never mentioned that. The insurance company paid for ALL of his cancer treatment. His treatment for cancer ended as per medical orders. b.o. did not mention that. The man passed away FOUR YEARS after his treatment ended. b.o. did not mention that.

2) Some claims are denied. Mostly for paperwork errors and then are approved when the proper medical coding is done. For instance a claim comes in saying the person suffered a broken leg and a cast was put on his arm. That claim will be denied until the paperwork makes sense. Some claims are fraudulent. Medicare says they pay out hundreds of MILLIONS in fraudulent claims. Private insurance is not that STUPID. Insurance companies almost NEVER lose in medical litigation. Most denied claims are in auto and accident insurance claims, not in health insurance claims.

3) Non-issue for pre-existing conditions is a GOVERNMENT APPROVED way of cost containment. Insurance is NOT a prepayment of medical bills. Insurance is a TRANSFER OF RISK in exchange for a premium. There is no RISK for either party in a pre-existing condition. The claim WILL be made. Therefore it is not an insurable situation. A rudimentary understanding of what insurance IS and what it is NOT would not allow one to ask that question.

And you might note that insurance companies are OWNED by your neighbor down the street. Maybe your grandparents retirement account. Maybe by your unions retirement account. Maybe by your employers investment account. Maybe by your best friend. They are owned by stockholders or policyholders in MUTUAL insurance companies.

In other words,,,,,,,US,,,,,,,,,,,,and we own them with the intent of making money.

 

You are making sweeping claims without proof. Also your logic is off. You are admitting the insurance company rescinded his policy and then reinstated after political pressure was put on.

Never mind that. Lets look at some facts:

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2012/01/16/bise0118.htm

"Executives of three of the nation's largest health insurers told federal lawmakers in Washington on Tuesday that they would continue canceling medical coverage for some sick policyholders, despite withering criticism from Republican and Democratic members of Congress who decried the practice as unfair and abusive."

"The executives -- Richard A. Collins, chief executive of UnitedHealth's Golden Rule Insurance Co.; Don Hamm, chief executive of Assurant Health and Brian Sassi, president of consumer business for WellPoint Inc., parent of Blue Cross of California -- were courteous and matter-of-fact in their testimony.

But they would not commit to limiting rescissions to only policyholders who intentionally lie or commit fraud to obtain coverage, a refusal that met with dismay from legislators on both sides of the political aisle."


http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/17/business/fi-rescind17

So the executives of 3 major companies said they will continue the practice. Its from the horses mouth. What can you say against that?

What about this:

"Insurers deny issue – industry analysts give examples

The DMHC has yet to inform the insurance companies which policies will be reviewed, but the insurers have already hinted that they may fight any reinstatements in court and maintain that they have a right to rescind policies when it is discovered that policyholders have materially misrepresented facts on their application. Industry analysts agree that this is their right; however, they also say that that right is being abused. They point to the various scandals and illegal practices in which insurers have been caught red-handed in the past six months, including:

Blue Shield. California’s Insurance Commissioner announced that he is seeking $12.6 million in fines and penalties from Blue Shield of California Life & Health Insurance Company for over 1,200 violations.
PacifiCare. California Insurance Commissioner and the DMHC announced that they are seeking $1.3 billion for over 130,000 alleged claim violations made by PacifiCare. It is the first action ever taken by both departments against a single health care provider.
HealthNet. A private arbitration judge ordered HealthNet to pay $9 million after the company canceled a cancer patient’s coverage while she was in the middle of receiving chemotherapy treatments. "

This is nonsense with no proof. You are making sweeping assumptions and nothing more. Proof please.

Sure, but then we have the issue for the un-insured to get treatment they then must get on medicaid, go bankrupt, or use the emergency room as their primary care facility. These costs get transfered as higher rates to the rest of us if the uninsured can't pay.

Furthermore you end up paying for it through medicaid if the uninsured decided/can't get a job with health insurance or quits work to get medicaid.

Makes sense right?

See we have to deal in the context of what happens in the real world.

Perhaps if everyone had a base coverage....

So in your own logic you don't want to pay for the uninsured to have access to health care, but paying Obama (if he owns HI stock) some insurance profit is fine with you? An American needs medical attention and you would rather line Obama's pocket for doing nothing?

Gee that doesn't make much sense.

 

You post a garbage can of opinions, NO FACTS.

A simple fact, once a policy is in force after the contestability period it can be canceled for proven prosecutable fraud or non payment of premiums. Otherwise the insurer pays until it reaches the policy maximum.

I made no comments about paying for care for the poor or the pre-existing. That is strictly your prejudice speaking for you.

Paying for the poor is a totally different issue than health insurance. Once again, GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Insurance is not prepayment of medical bills, it is a transfer of risk in exchange for a premium. INSURANCE IS NOT HEALTH CARE.

Neither you nor obama seem to realize that. He vilified insurance for 8 months and then bribed and threatened his own party to pass a health INSURANCE LAW, not a health CARE law. It is difficult to imagine anything more stupid, other than those that think he did well.

 

So then what is your opinion on Pacificare's 130,000 cases in a couple of years. That is just California.


Seems you skip those facts.

 

Ayuh,.... Danm Dan,... I was startin' to think that I'm the only 1 that understands that... Kudos....

Up here in the Progressive Liberal state of Ny, our politicains have ruined the health Insurance industry,...
It's now nothin' but Prepaid Medical, per NYS government mandating everything under the sun, MUST be covered...
My own State Rep. is pushing for Baby Food to be covered... WTF,..??

No wonder the standard Basic health insurance policy here in NYS co$t$ well over a GRAND a f(*)(*)kin' MONTH....

 

What I don't get is why the private sector won't allow those who want to pay into a government system (while also paying for those who can't afford insurance) the right or privilege of doing so. I understand the government would have an unfair competitive advantage in that enrollees wouldn't have to pay that 30% 'administrative' mark-up but, hey, I'm not particularly in favor of subsidizing lazy shiftless CEOs with big lobby backing.

 

Ayuh,... That 30% will become 60% that will be consumed by a bloated lazy shiftless over paid bureaucracy.....

Efficiency, 'n government bureaucracy Can't be used in the same sentence ya know...

 

That has not been the case with Medicare. I think that 30% would become more like 6 or 7%. Not that it matters what the percentage goes to, we are both being denied rights we shouldn't be denied. I feel like a host Sequoia being taken over by wood-eating insect larvae.

 

Don't mention it, James - people should be aware of how f'ed up our HC system will be if the Left gets its way and nationalizes everything.

I was astonished that a simple hernia procedure that I had done within 10 days requires a 4 1/2 month wait in the UK. What's less astonishing is that the government-run system ended up taking another 7 1/2 months to actually get the procedure done...

 

When Obama is defeated for re-election in November, this kind of valuable information will be much easier to get out to the public.

 

Ayuh,.... Bullship.....

The rest of the nation, under Obocare is gonna be payin' insurance rates just like those charged up here in NYS,...
Because of the intrusions into the insurance markets by the Liberal Progressives here,...
$1200. a Month is the opening, Cheapest private policy that can be bought....
Soon,... You'll all be payin' these rates,...

The days of the $350. a month Major Medical Insurance is GONE...
Now everybody in the country will be buyin' the "It covers everybody, for everything" policies...
You too will be tossin' $1200. a Month to cover yer Obocare...
Aka; Prepaid Medical....

Yer Evil insurance corporations, 'n the Liberal Elite gettin' fat on Our sweat...
Great F(*)(*)kin' job Obo....

 

Ha-Ha!

This is an outstanding response, Bondo!

Thanks for sharing!

 

And here I thought you just had a rash,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Ha-Ha!

Very good, Dan40!

 

The answer is fraud!

 

The first $1000 of everyone's premiums is divided by profit and administration cost so they are making more than what you have quoted here. United Healthcare owns a bank and several other corporations, they also own the software company that is creating the exchanges for the mandate.

- - - Updated - - -

The first $1000 of everyone's premiums is divided by profit and administration cost so they are making more than what you have quoted here. United Healthcare owns a bank and several other corporations, they also own the software company that is creating the exchanges for the mandate.

- - - Updated - - -

The first $1000 of everyone's premiums is divided by profit and administration cost so they are making more than what you have quoted here. United Healthcare owns a bank and several other corporations, they also own the software company that is creating the exchanges for the mandate.

 

I would do this medical providers can opt to work for the government as the employer, who would pay a salary and cover malpractice with strict laws on when you can sue and a committee of experts to determine amounts for those in government care. This system would used funds and additional taxes the Medicaid, Medicaid and the VA system would be replaced with the Federal system.

If medical providers don't want to enter the Federal system they can work in a private cash and/or insurance market but not one penny of government money would go to this system likely this would be for the wealthy anyway.

Then let people decide who enter medicine who they want to work for. I would stack things and provide a selection of 100% free medical programs in the country for those who agree to enter the government system for two decades upon graduation over a variety of areas including dentistry and psychology.

But as I'm poor now any government system is better than nothing at all.

 

[video=youtube;iRPhltjPSFs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iRPhltjPSFs[/video]

For us there is no one close to run to.

 

Speaking of imagining stupid things, you find it surprising that Obama tried to change what he "vilified for 8 months"??? Would you also criticize him if he did nothing about problems we face?

 

The incompetent idiot obama did not try to FIX any problems we face. What he did is supply billions of dollars of pork to his "friends."

Florida has just released the program for the state exchange.. While the Insurance Commissioner said premiums will increase up to 40% (and that is for STARTERS, as time goes by it will become much worse)

But the liberal paper disputed his figures. They said that the premiums are only higher because they offer more coverage. And that's baloney. They also claimed comically, that there would be no increase for the 3.5 million residents that previously could not afford insurance. They said premiums as low as $239.00 are available. or $2868.00 per year. They continued, people would be able to go online and choose their plan just like booking a flight on a travel channel. They failed to note that the govt has already said NOT ONE website would be ready on 10/01. And wouldn't be for some months yet. WHEN the websites are available, FL. residents will be able to choose one of 309 plans available. THREE HUNDRED AND NINE simple plans for a person that knows nothing about insurance to pick from. INSANE! They say 11 insurers will offer plans thru the state exchange. Yet not one county in FL will have all 11 insurers offering plans. Miami/Dade and Palm Beach counties will have 9 insurers offering plans. The two most populous counties don't attract all 11 insurers. And 20 of FL's 67 counties will have only 1 insurer to "choose" from. 30% of the counties in the 3rd largest state will have no competition.. And the young people that have to buy insurance and have no claims to support this incredible mess, will have to pay a fine of $100 dollars if they don't buy the $2868. policy. Care to bet which path they will choose?

All of the above courtesy of a liberal newspaper DEFENDING obamacare.

obama care fixes nothing and makes both our health insurance and health care much more expensive.



And let us not forget there are still 7700 new regulations pertaining to obamacare that are still pending and obamascam is going into effect in just days.

The 10 year EXTRA cost of obamacare will exceed $7 TRILLION dollars. And the CBO has already admitted it will cost 700,000 or more jobs to be lost.

So he did nothing positive about the problems and made them worse. He is simply the worst president that the nation has ever had and he is so bad that it is inconceivable that the nation will EVER have a worse president.

 

We've gone over this 1000 times on this forum = it was doctors who principally lobbied for health care reform. They want the same system which works in Europe, Canada, Japan, and in Israel where it is paid for by USA tax dollars.