America: the Final beast Government prophesied in Revelation

To both statements: (*)(*)(*)(*)ing Rome.

 

In my 70+ years I have seen more interpretations of Revellations than I have had cups of coffee - well almost. No-one, repeat no-one ad infinitum - knows the true interpretation - if there is one.
The Messiah. Jesus wasn't the Messiah of the Jews because he wasn't how they understood the OT. He was the Messiah of christianity because it was how they understood the OT. He wasn't the Messiah for Islam because they hadn't yet arrived and pinched the OT for their religion.
The Messiah will not 'return' for the Jews as he has not yet been. So he will come for the first time.
The Messiah will return for the Christians.
The Messiah does not exist in Islam. Jesus the prophet will return.

Me? I've studied much of the Bible BUT I WILL NOT study prophecy. What prophecies in the Bible are actual prophecies or should be classed as history having been written after the events is debatable. Something I leave alone.
The book of Revelation could be applied to almost every age that has been, and possibly will be.

 

I might ask then, what the Messiah was supposed to do?

Well, the physical exiustence of Jesus is found in many historical relates, the bible, Josephus, the Tractate Sanhedrin. For you he was not the Messiah, but that he was here, Jesus, yes he was here.

Actually, when you see it with eskeptic eyes, yes, you won't find any connection, but by deciphering the different narrations in the bible, yes, you can find some agreement with the idea of a suffering leader, a resurrection event.

Oh, I see... the belief of some people bothers you, but, why you read these messages about religion then?

Look, I don't like much reading sports, and I don't go to the sports section to bother the sport fans....

 

name god, free mankind.

Truth destroys ignorance.

Nothing magical about it.

i like jesus and what he left. I hate what people have done with what he left.

he didnt lead. People followed. A leader dont sneak out the back after raising from the dead. But rather a man, that many thought was dead, awoke and left town to live another day, without idiots following him around expecting miracles.

The suffering is what you and i go thru everyday. To hold the name of god and not use it for sale, is the suffering that I could see would bug many, if not most. Sometimes, i wonder what it would be like if business was the only thing that mattered.

the lie and liars bother me. No one has a right to mislead. I aint perfect but i will listen and learn to even the rudest folks as even the nasty can teach me something. ie... learn the lesson from a train wreck

So i get into bunches of wrecks. It's how i learn beyond just literature.

But them sports aint on life and death. They are not matters of such importance, that each and every soul ever to walk has wanted to understand.

learning about life, truth, our environment, our world, the very living processes that we are............... and how to live forever, and it be true, is what i do.

i be that name holder and have been here for almost half a century, living and learning. I am no different than any other, but if you want to know what life is, and it be fact, i be your huckleberry.

Now flip the coin; as you sit there, and someone makes such bold claims, how would you measure them true?

If another posted and said, "hey that sob is spot on", would it make a difference?

Then if i jumped on the soap box and said, i am 'he', how the hell would that make a difference?

Funny spot aint it?

Magic aint an option and NO one wants to be considered the magical, mystical, mess of a man, as then people want from you what does not exist, until the honest few ask the simple question, 'what can i do to live forever?" Then you'll see me pop up as then a mind is seeking what is real.

Otherwise, i face the contest with liars because truth, does not lose. Me as a person can make mistakes, and how I personally can learn from the experience shared by another.

just consider me a nutcase, with a sense of humor as it is easier. You dont want to know me but you can read a bunch of material that can assist you in living longer.

 

I agree with several points of your post.

When people say that today is the time of and end, I won't follow as well.

However, it is known that God won't do things without informing to his prophets, so there are signs to be deciphered in order to understand what is going on, not necessarily what will happen next.

See? without knowledge of what is happening (the events that will push an end of an era) the selected ones could be deceived by anyone.

To recognize the biblical moment that you live in it will help the selected ones to prevent themselves of following what appears to be the true path but that in reality is a false guidance.

Understanding the biblical moment is as important as understanding and obeying the doctrines.

 

Not exactly with those words, but something like that might be the change.

This is the degenerate path that works in everything in this universe. From a pure doctrine, several followers will convert it into pagan beliefs. Just don't follow those false doctrines, that's all.

The purpose is that humans must do part of the job. You see that the Children of Israel didn't enter to the promissed land without fighting. Man was suppose to do his part, to make his effort, not so to receive the benefits without doing his part. Even Adam had to work in Eden, he was the gardener...

Let me see, how I can tell... OK... in my former job, some dudes used to sit besides the receptionist and talk to her all day long. I used to get to my office, pick up my assignment and leave and do my job. I didn't care about what the others were doing, I was paid to do my job and I was happy returning home knowing that I did my best to performed it. The same has been my behavior in the different workplaces, I don't look what the others do, such is their business, I prefer to receive my paycheck in base of what I offered as work.

I try to the same with religious issues, I'm not blind to see how many make profit and get rich using religion as their private business, and again, I try to do what I can do to perform my best as a believer. God will judge.

What I know is that to live forever Yeshu (Jesus) did obey his father. The commandment itself says that honoring father and mother might prolong your life.

To me, what is important is not how long you can live but what did you do when you lived on earth.

Everybody look for different goals, and best is when our goals help for some purpose other than our own benefit. We can't lose patience, regardless of how lies and corruption increases around. If we are strong, our faith won't be removed by anything, and making mistakes or not, everyone who keep his faith regardless of the attacks from others... deserves admiration.

 

I have a lot of books and movies that show that Tarzan was real.

Just because some character is mentioned in books does not make him real. Have you seen any demons or zombies?

 

The problem we have then is 'who are the chosen ones'? Christians down the centuries have interpreted the prophecies of the Bible, all according to what was happening in their time.
Revelations has been used to describe the actions of Rome of the 1st Cent BCE, Rome in the 1st Cent. CE, or the Roman Catholic Church. Down the years it hasd been linked to various situations. It is now being linked to current events. Undoubtedly it will be linked to current events in the future.

Leave specific prophecy well alone. If you are a Christian accept that the Messiah will return when he is ready. If you are not, live life to the best of your ability.

 

There is a difference between novels and historical documents.

 

when the documents are changed to fit the time, it is no longer a historical record.

ie..... genesis is not a historical document. Matt is not a historical document. Both begin their respective tree of literature and do not represent true history.

 

2 sets to see.

hashemite tribe are the chosen ones on the mount in jerusalem. (Look up who they are and the importance of the site)

and they are surrounded, as prophecized

Then you have the sobs of the 'gate of god' (babilu), that are to be destroyed based on what they have done.

you learn about them terms and you will understand the 'chosen ones'

and there is the self purporting a universal truth. The idiot that the world is awaiting, is what the world is awaiting as prior, the 'name of god' did not exist.

Are you actually awaiting the 'truth'?

Because if you are, then you will not mislead.

 

will the mess of a man, be able to eat the seals or open them?

not even jesus translated the OT

ie... that is a method to realize, that jesus was not the mess

So which is it. The jewish adherants wrote the torah, because we each know that 'god' didnt, but yet they dont see jesus as messiah. To you, christians interpret what the jewish folk wrote to represent that jesus fit what 'they' wrote, but admit that messiah must still 'return' simply because HE did not finish what was written, by the jewish folk.

pinched?

funny. quran, is based on combining OT, NT, zoroasterism, hindu (eastern), into a single set of literature.

The majority of quran is prophecies rewritten. Read it for yourself

It's a first time, for mankind. ie.... kalki, pahanna, quetzacoatl, adi buddha, christ, messiah, punk with a chip on his shoulder, name holder

all are the same

for who? Dont make me laugh.

rediculous

then you leave out about half of the literature

did jesus have the name of god (last word to all arguments)?

Did anyone to ever walk?

No...... as only one does!

oh really;

rev 22:4 and they shall see His face, and His name [is] upon their foreheads,

5 and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign -- to the ages of the ages.


can you point out where any of that has occurred?

 

what will you see, hear, experience, that will indicate that the mess is walking?

the prophets (of babble) are no longer walking to talk to anyone
What signs are YOU to see?

could you be decieved?

is it possible?

So if you cant see what is true, than how will mankind?

Then what is the moment? What is it, that awakens mankind?

 

The Bible is referring to Michelle Bachmann in that passage.

 

The captivity of slavery via slave ships hadn't happend yet during that time.

America is the final Beast Government of Revelation.

 

On the contrary Jesus often 'interpreted' the OT. 'You have heard it said...but I say unto you...' etc

.

The Jews who wrote the OT wrote of a Messiah who would come in power and free them from captivity.
Christianity has interpreted that in a different way. Would the Hebrews really want a Messiah that left them captive.
Again it's down to prophesy. Interprete it as you will.

Yes - stolen. It is essentially the OT and some of the NT rewritten for their own use. And I have read it.

As regards the various 'returns' of the Messiah I was simply pointing out the various views of the beliefs and their outcomes. I didn't mean I believe them.

I don't think so. I believe some of the minor 'prophetic' books were written after the events and should be classed as history.

Don't understand what you are saying.


rev 22:4 and they shall see His face, and His name [is] upon their foreheads,

5 and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign -- to the ages of the ages.

No. But then I have not studied Revelations to form an opinion of what I believe is meant. You believe it is meant literally. I doubt the writer, whoever it was, even understood what he was writing. Many people have 'visions'. Mohammed had many, do you accept them? Joan of Arc had a vision. Stephen the Martyr had a vision.
We both know that the Bible was written by men. What makes this 'vision' any different? Was it what a man wanted. Was it, as some believe, a statement against Rome of the time, only in picture languages to prevent Roman reprisals.

If man wrote the prophecies of the OT why not the NT.
Prophesies and visions only mean something to those who want to believe them

 

Oh come on, don't walk over the limit of the ridiculous. Yeshu (Jesus) sentence to death is recorded in the Tractate Sanhedrin, record of special court cases from the Second Temple in Israel... practically an official document.

Please, now you can keep watching your zombie's movies...

 

I agree. I can't point who is the chosen one and who isn't, because such is God's choice.

I have read the apostle Paul saying that he fought a good fight, yes, and that is what "he" said... and I agree when I read what he preached here and there having lots of complications from others trying to stop him... but I can't guarantee that "he made it", that he is one of the chosen ones, because such is God's decision.

Still, you can have an idea of who might be "a candidate to be a chosen one", when you read that Jesus called "brothers and sisters" to the ones who obey God, and not necessarily his flesh related brothers and sisters.

Jesus made it, he surely was a chosen one, he didn't resurrect by himself, the scriptures say clearly that "he was resurrected", that he received the prize of a body that won't get corrupt.

Soi, we might waste our lives trying to find who is another chosen one, because we won't know it, the only one who makes such a selection is God.

And yes, we can only live the best of our ability.

 

Quote Originally Posted by carloslebaron View Post
I agree with several points of your post.

When people say that today is the time of and end, I won't follow as well.
Bishadi: what will you see, hear, experience, that will indicate that the mess is walking?

Whatever I see, hear, experience to recognize the biblical moment is just the agreement of the scriptures with the current events.

However, it is known that God won't do things without informing to his prophets, so there are signs to be deciphered in order to understand what is going on, not necessarily what will happen next.
the prophets (of babble) are no longer walking to talk to anyone
What signs are YOU to see?

I see the current beast government: democracy in conjuction with capitalism. When a country in the current world is not following this system, the beast of ten horns (10 tribes of Israel: current Europe and both Americas) and the other beast with two horns (Israel and Benjamin) pressure or invade these countries to convert them as democratic and capitalist. Even Russia, China, Japan, Africa nations, all the countries of the world are being subjected to these beast system. This is what I see,

What do you think about it?

See? without knowledge of what is happening (the events that will push an end of an era) the selected ones could be deceived by anyone.
could you be decieved?

is it possible?

Why not?

To recognize the biblical moment that you live in it will help the selected ones to prevent themselves of following what appears to be the true path but that in reality is a false guidance.
So if you cant see what is true, than how will mankind?

You better talk by yourself, because you can't detect who can see and who can't see what is true. If you can't, just say so, that is fine... no big deal...

Understanding the biblical moment is as important as understanding and obeying the doctrines.
Then what is the moment? What is it, that awakens mankind?

About this moment, is recognizing the main characters who rule the beast system. Recognizing how corrupt the beast system is becoming and will be in the future. Right now, is enough to see how corrupt all politicians are, there is not a honest politician anymore, and by consequence, their actions and decisions will be corrupt. This is the current fact in politics.

This path of corruption won't reverse itself but will increase, the beast system will fail. Just look at the debt of the US government, how fake is the economy surviving by increasing the limit of the debt... lol

And the same is happening with lots of countries around the world. This is the current beast system, destined to fail, this is what I see thanks to the bible when comparing the scriptures with our current events.

What is next?

Do you really want to know?

If yes, then read the bible.

 

The Babylonian Talmud says that the Jews killed Jesus using 5 different methods. The Bible says that the Jews just used one method. So which one is correct?

You have to become a zombie in order to have eternal life. Christianity is a zombie-based religion and so is Islam.

 

The people at the last supper didnt even write down what jesus said. How the hell are historian's going to know? There are practically zero birth records for people that were not royalty


.

 

I know that he was aware that i was coming. Just as you pointed out.

Here it is in john 14

29 `And now I have said [it] to you before it come to pass, that when it may come to pass, ye may believe;

30 I will no more talk much with you, for the ruler of this world doth come, and in me he hath nothing;

the people that oppress based on beliefs, are the bad guys of any bible.

And guess who hates oppression?

I asked if jesus had the name of god/

'the name' is what destroys ignorance.

It is the last word.

Funny.

If a human being saw ww3 and it was a nuclear war, would the incoming of ballistic missiles look to someone of the first century or even 1000yrs BC, like the 'stars were falling'?

Do you know what entanglement is and how it works?

How many times have you experienced deja vu?

 

Not sure whether we are at cross purposes. I do not consider the Gospels historic documents. See my post recent post to neverleft on another thread. Far from it. I do call Josephus, Tacitus etc historians of some note, however. Their writings are accepted as fairly authoritative in many cases. In the case of references to Jesus these are subject to debate, accepted that these references are second hand.

 

What I wake up to everyday?

the beast called 'invisible hand' was born in 1776 by adam smith. ie.. business need no use of virtues

'we the people' are a part of it

i asked you, if you were being decieved and now you are asking me?

OK ... yes, i was decieved. I once thought that others were better than others once upon a time. Then, I learned on my own and found out that with pure honesty, that each are naturally equal and it is of choice that people will not accept their equality.

for example; anyone and everyone can walk on water, naturally.

because i did not accept what I was told and choose to do the work myself.

I do see what is real and why I support mankind. I trust that each are capable if given a chance.

ie.... I enable the children to be better than the previous generations with the use of 'the word' (name of god/math defining how existence itself operates)

what?

Do not tell me, what i can and cannot do? That kind of stupidity is what i hate about preachers. "WE" as human beings are capable and as soon as someone tells another that they are not, i call foul.

we are all a part of it (invisible hand). Purely, 'we the people' each submit to business and that centralization is why the USA can be governed by so few

most anyone could be bought in the current system

but none can buy me and why the concept of 'no eating from the tree' (of knowledge) is actually being held. Meaning, it aint that i am following 'that' rule. but that the old prophecy, is kind of or actually true; i will not use the name for personal gain. Otherwise, i would be more powerful, business wise, than bill gates, warren buffett, madonna and martha stewart combined. ie.... the name, is what the world is awaiting (not a person)

I comprehend that

i am waiting for the fireworks show (dan 7;8...) (three religions of abraham are pulled from their roots as soon as babilu (jerusalem) is returned to thickets (nuked, destroyed forever)

actually, it would be easier if i was wrong and none of us have to live thru what is coming

I bet, i have read more versions of bible than you have held in your hands

I be that idiot that is the name holder but few are going to like judgment *day* or any day, with truth holding the podium. For example; if you were to run to the news and tell people that I am here, keep in mind, that if i was ever put on in a spot to judge, people would be dying all over the world, as a liar to me is a walking dead person and to put judgment to the floor, I would just as soon bury the sobs, than waste my time convincing anyone.

So just leave me here, learn what is real and stop looking for a magic fix, because there is none. It will be a nuclear holocaust before i leave this earth.

8 `I was considering about the horns, and lo, another horn, a little one, hath come up between them, and three of the first horns have been eradicated from before it, and lo, eyes as the eyes of man [are] in this horn, and a mouth speaking great things.


Nothing to joke about