Male Femininity

[video=youtube;77lPjNhL5X4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77lPjNhL5X4[/video]

An interesting video about the double standards of gender roles in society. I find it annoying that a woman can pretty much do anything that's considered masculine and not be labelled gay for it, but if a man does anything that's slightly feminine, his sexuality is questioned, and even his status as a man.

 

It sucks that women can wear trousers but a man can't wear a skirt... unless he's Scottish >_>

 

What masculine things are woman doing that you are using for the basis of this opinion?

 

Things like wearing pants, which aren't as masculine these days because everybody wears them, but pants used to be considered a male only garment. Women can wear men's garments without societal disapproval, they can enjoy male activities like playing video games, shooting guns, etc, without a backlash.

Of course there's still resistance from some people towards women who do male things, but it's nowhere near the backlash that feminine men face just for showing their emotions or wearing something slightly feminine.

 

"How come girls can say 'I'm going to go to brunch with my girlfriend.' and no one assumes anything, but when i say 'I'm going to buy fanny packs with my boyfriend', people assume i'm a gay, thats right a GAY!" - Zach Galifianakis

To be perfectly blunt: wear guy clothes. Have you ever heard a girl talk about shoe sizes and she includes "men". "Well, I'm a size this in women but I'm a size that in men."

 

Huh? Women have been wearing pants forever. You gotta have something else.

 

That's kind of the point.

 

I like how she brought up how some feminist women look down on other women for being feminine. I've seen that attitude before--the idea that masculinizing women is feminist. To me that is just giving in to how people view women--saying " being a man is better, so I am going to act more like a "man" ".

 

No, they haven't. I can't find the quote right now, but there was a Christian leader back in the 60's who said that women who wore pants were gender confused and were mentally ill.

Also, Liberalis makes a good point. It's been socially acceptable for a while now for women to wear pants. That's why it's not shocking anymore. But men wearing dresses is still a shock to many, even progressive minded people.

 

Women in general are feminine---especially the younger (look at this lady in video???) Women wear skirts, mini skirts, dresses and flowery tops that show cleavage (like the woman in the video) cause they like it and they like being feminine. Men where I work. must wear a collared solid shirt, jacket and tie. Life's unfair.

But women choose clothes they like and men choose clothes they like and men and women are different in general. Women who choose man-like suits are abnormal. Men who choose feminine styles are abnormal. For whatever reason--they are not in the norm.

Now the woman in the video was ultra feminine. The make-up, the clothes screamed---I am woman!. She wanted to be that way. If she opted to present herself as manly-- no make-up, suit, tie or flannel shirt....Then she would have been noticed as "different".

So...I disagree with the double-standard argument.

 

Who says you have to be Scottish to wear a kilt? They even make utility kilts.

 

Actually I was raised in a fundamentalist church that preached heavily (still does to my knowledge, I haven't visited their website lately) against women wearing pants.

 

So a woman who wears jeans and a t shirt will be looked at in the same negative way as a man who wears a dress? I don't think so.

 

A woman in jeans and t-shirt is not a woman trying to look like a man wearing jeans and t-shirt. We have....Woman's jeans. And we have Men's Jeans. And...we have women style belts and man styled belts. T-shirts for women tend to show a little more then a man's t-shirt.

Put a man in women's jeans, a woman's t-shirt with a woman's belt---and you have an abnormal looking individual. Put a woman in the men's jeans and man's shirt and belt---and you have an abnormal looking individual.

 

I don't know - as far as the jeans go I've worn women's and gotten away with it, skinny/slim fit seems to be all the rage now in this metrosexual age.

Still not seeing guy's skirts though lol

 

Swedish male train drivers don skirts to beat the heat

"Male staff on Stockholm's commuter trains have begun wearing skirts to circumvent a ban on shorts as sweltering heat hit the Swedish capital this week.

Around 15 male train drivers and other staff wore skirts this week on the suburban Roslagsbanan train service, where temperatures inside the carriages can reach 35 degrees Celsius (95 degrees Fahrenheit), transport company Arriva said Sunday."

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nid=48548

Good for them!

 

You keep proving the point. Pants were once considered masculine, as were t-shirts. It was socially unacceptable for a woman to wear such clothes--even if they were designed to fit a woman's body. The same has not happened for women'c clothes, such as dresses or skirts. You don't get Men's skirts or Men's dresses. Most people would even say it is impossible to fashion such clothes for men. The same would have been said about women's pants and t-shirts in the past, but it is not longer said now. That is the double standard, and you can say it doesn't matter but it exists whether you like it or not.

 

Wearing pants was considered immodest because showing leg and showing where the legs meet at the groin--was considered close to profane. We don't have that attitude anymore. Its when modesty attitudes changed--that clothes change. But the concept of feminine and mascline are still strong traits for both sexes. Women are no less feminine then they were in the 1800's, 1930's or 20 years ago. There may have been a short-lived fad that made a magazine cover---but nothing of substance.

 

Again, that's the point. We don't have the attitude that women wearing pants is wrong (the reason for why is totally irrelevant here) but we do have the attitude towards men wearing dresses. The fact of the matter is that traditionally acceptable styles of clothing once restricted to men are now completely acceptable for women, whereas traditionally acceptable styles of clothing once restricted to women are still completely unacceptable for men. What do you call that?

Please direct me to the women's pants department and the men's skirt department. What? Only one of those exists? You call that a double standard.

 

The question is why can women be less feminine but men can't be more feminine. And I'm saying nothing has changed except for modesty standards. The reason why women have a jean department but men don't---is because skirts are feminine and jeans are feminine. Women wanted to wear jeans because they are comfortable. MEN DON"T WANT TO WEAR SKIRTS. Its not a double standard. Its what the majority of men want and the majority of women want. If clothing stores opened deptments of skirts for men---to force them to buy---THAT would be a doublestandard. Nothing was forced on women---they simply became a market as they wanted jeans.

When men start clamoring for skirts----then men skirts will happen.

 

Apparently, men are clamoring to wear skirts in some places, as was shown in post 16.

 

There is a lot of nature at work that runs too deeply for PC society to accept.

 

I'm sure she is a nice person but I couldn't get through the entire video.

You and her aren't really talking about "doing anything" considered feminine or masculine right? You're talking about fashion. (Mostly?)
What did you mean "status as a man"?

If a woman dresses in what is currently considered male she's labelled gay also. I suppose for both sexes it would be more accurate to think of other possibilities like transgender, transsexual, intersex and maybe even androgynous but that's also giving more thought about some passing stranger's personal identity and sex life than I know I want to think about.

Beyond fashion being judged, men that are able to cook well, share household chores, be empathetic, good with kids and not violent is sometimes considered gay or feminine (translate: beneath men) in some circles. (usually conservative) Personally, I prefer those traits in a guy to the strictly macho type, but what about also being attracted to what has been considered male strengths? (you know that male guyness kinda stuff) Can the two sets of strengths exist together in one person at the same time? What about with both sexes in a relationship at the same time?

Are the qualities I say I prefer and how you dress could symbolizes that for some an example of why conservatives claim feminists want and have contributed to a society that feminizes men? (aka the downfall of men)
Are women that look for and appreciate what are often considered feminine traits in men really saying that women should control men?

If you, a guy, dress like a woman (for some) are you stating to women and men that you want to be controlled?
If you compromise with a woman in a relationship are you a weak (feminized) man?

 

It is true, women can wear ANY style of clothes a man can wear but it doesn’t go both ways. Suits, ties, fedoras, anything. It starts at a young age also. Nowadays calling a girl a tomboy isn’t an insult. It is a badge many women wear with pride. If a boy plays games typically played by girls he is likely to be called a much more pejorative word, like sissy.

My guess is a day will come where the feminine won’t be so maligned. It just takes time.

 

I you're a guy, and you wear a dress, make up, or act feminine, I'm going to assume you're gay.

Women in jeans are nice though.

sorry but it's true.