Is the US economic system Corporatism or Capitalism?

Bribe the refs, fix the outcome of the game. Throw away the refs and beat the other team with sticks and shoot them with guns.

 

The average American family pays $6,000 a year in subsidies to big business.

Big business has used its lobby groups to coerce federal politicians to give them hundreds of tax loopholes, shelters, bailouts and even rights as people.

Since corporations are now people, we should hold them more accountable. Instead, in the ultimate knife-twist, Big Business has even convinced that government that they are "too big to fail" and "too big to prosecute".

 

They have the biggest sticks and biggest guns. The only reason they need to bribe the refs is because they can't use their power. By the way, I'm against corporations power... I just don't think there is much of a difference between capitalism and corporatism and corporatism is the result of capitalism and government.

 

There is no such thing as an invisible hand. Resource owners have and will always control the world. The only entity that can fight against the resource owners is the government. Which is why the capitalists need to use their wealth to lobby the government to change the rules for them to gain even more wealth. We saw what happens with capitalism during the Industrial Revolution. There was no invisible hand that provided competition to Rockefeller. The only hand that came down to prevent him from owning the country was the government. And all the rules the government creates is why the capitalists have to get politicians in that will allow them to do what they want.

If they were allowed to do what they wanted they wouldn't need politicians or lobbyists.

 

Not exactly , we can fight against resource grabbers as people by revoking the legitimacy of the government and nullifying of the social contract , this automatically cancels all property claims .

I am not arguing what the government can potentially do but what it is doing and this is bending over .
Yes of course there is no invisible hand .

 

Well for once mut we agree, corpratism is the same as fascism for all practical puposes. However you and most others misidentify whose in charge. In the usual odd ball interpretation of the facts which fits the predilections of so many populists the corporations which have only money control the people with all the cops and military hardware. This is tantamount to claiming that the local grocery store owner who is paying protection money to the Mob is in charge of the mob which has made it overly clear that if he doesn't pay they'll burn his store down around him.

In certain ways the system is some what symbiotic at the top levels because both benefit. the government by essentially limiting the number of entities it has to deal with and the major corps by having fewer competitors. But it is also very clear who is in charge as witness the anti trust lawsuit against Microsoft and the wanton destruction of WAMU.

 

Corporatism

 

I have heard that somewhere before.

 

Yes but all recent US presidents have been corporatist. Both the democrat and republican party are controlled by the
system. With the exception of Paul, Nader, and possible Johnson we have not had a choice of anything else. It is neither capitalism or socialism but a hybrid bastardazation. Corporatism is also known as the "third way". This is not a left vs right issue both side should agree. Yet instead they fight and blame the other party when their leaders are doing the same just slightly different the retoric is the difference not the results.

 

Dude, akphidelt has already spanked you. Just quit now....

Rhetoric vs. knowledge - knowledge always wins

 

It's currently a government run corporatism, with politicians and bureaucrats playing political and corporate cronyism, as we slowly move to a type of fascism for the political elites and despotic socialism for the unlucky masses. in fact, aren't we almost to that point right now?

 

If I simply say "Goldman Sachs" I think we can all guess the correct answer.

Seriously, this isn't a matter of debate, it IS a fact.

 

I would say we have passed that point years ago. Some of us including myself have just begun to realize the truth.

 

Yes but it is much deeper than Goldman Sachs they are not even the worst offender.
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

 

Your posts makes some good point but you act as if Corporatism is just a result and defense against capitalism. Hitler went that direction from socialism. Russia and China went from communism to Corporatism. The reason this has been refered to as " the third way" is because it is neither capitalism or socialism. Just pointing the finger at capitalism goes against the history of the movement.

 

As usual the truth gets ignored...

 

More like hidden than ignored, people have been told so long it was capitalist vs socialist. That people just assume that to be the truth. I am surprised there has not been more that disagree with my OP.

 

If you haven't read johnah Goldberg's excellent "Liberal Fascism" do so. It is the single best work on the subject in years.

 

We have a corporatist government. The wealthy use their power to sway the opinions of any arbiters and enforce bargains that they plan to keep only so long as it benefits them.

 

As long as you contine tobelieve that the wealthy are the problem and people exercisng their first amendment rights to free speech is the issue not the overwhelming power of the government to kill by any means necessary any business or political group they don't like you are part of the problem not part of the solution.

 

The bourgeoisie and the bourgeoisie construct that is the government are at war ? fascinating !
You should try write some sci-fi .

 

In order for them to be at war there would have to be some semblance of equality in terms of weaponry and trained man power. There is not. And you should look up the definition of the term bourgeosie some time... Believe me the middle class certainly didn't knowingly construct the system that is currently castrating them.

 

I think you missed my point, maybe my English are too off.

You Americans have two fantastic phrases "follow the money" and "the big picture" , if you use them you will find out who relies on who , who sponsors who and the path money follow . From my avatar you should be able to understand what i mean by bourgeoisie or take two minutes to read something other than wikipedia.

 

You do understand how political fund campaigning works right? The wealthier bigger corporations are definitely the problem since it is their money that is funding the politician of their choice for a price of course, to create new laws or changes to existing ones that work in their favor.

 

And the politicians are what? Blameless? If you are not a corrupt politician, then how can you be bought? Don't tell me you are of the thought that government and it's politicians are good, and corporations and the rich are bad.