Will Our Military/Police Ever Turn On US?

Explain how refusing to fight will protect you from a tyrant or dictator.
I don't think anyone in the US military gives a rat's ass what you think.

 

Whether I or anyone resists a dictator has nothing to do with this and I don't know why you're bringing it up.

I understand most people who have been in the military feel very strongly the organization is a force for good but think about it:

When a dictator takes charge, he uses the military and all its willing servicemen to enforce his will.

So if America did end up with a dictator, why would things be any different? Surely if you were right then all prospectful dictators would be killed by their military as soon as they tried to seize power, yes? Because they must care more about the people they protect than their own power, right? So why do dictators end up with the military being their own private army?

Simple: there are always people who will go along with such a scheme if a) they think it's a good thing; and/or b) it gives them a little chunk of the proverbial pie too.

Given the track record of history, is there any doubt the US Military would back a dictator if one took control of America?

 

I think they would rally or riot, possibly. But once the guns come out, rubber bullets or not, people tend to flee when the pain comes.

The military is not under civilian control.

An insurgency is more an annoyance than a threat to a military with the power and technology of the US. But I have heard of the question, "how can the US lock down the entire continental US when it struggles with Iraq and similar places".

 

Oath's rarely mean anything to most people. When it comes down to it, when given an order, it would seem they are most likely to act in the interests of the state.

I've wondered this exact thing- the psychological reasons behind the act. I figured it was similar to a system of power and perks which have been very effective tools used in dividing people and enforcing loyalty to the person able to provide such things. In a police state, such people actually grow in status and power- similar to soldiers during a feudal era or soldiers in occupied territory. While they are still servants of the state, they have been promoted to a place above the majority of the citizens. Advantageous dissimenation of power, priviliedges, and perks could tear a family or relationship apart easily.

But, as one poster aleady suggested, I wonder if our cultures emphasis on serving the Constitution will be enough to safeguard us against the possibility of such a thing.

 

Well, the NSA is a military organization and we know what they have been up to.

I have my doubts that the military in general would turn against the American people. It would be enough of a shift from their current mission that it would give many in it cause for concern.

But the police? Hell yeah I think they would turn on the American people. They already do. In-border check-points, stop and frisk, free speech zones, arresting non-violent drug dealers and users, conducting prostitution stings, violent suppression of protests….

As long as the politicians say it is the law they will enforce it. They may question it internally and wish they didn’t have to do it, but in the end most of them will chalk it up to following orders. They already possess the "Us vs the Civilians" mind frame. Most of the military doesn't have that mind frame...yet.

 

Open your eyes. The police have already turned on us.

It's a done deal.

 

You postulate with a vague hypothetical scenario and then wonder why it might attract hair brained conspiracy theorists.

 

Nah ... That is where the difference is ...And you did bring up the dictator in your comments ... Although you referred to the American people looking for a Caesar.

The people who will go along are the people who don't have principles ... At least ones they are willing to die for.
If you are looking for people who are willing to die concerning fighting for the right principles ... You are going to find a hell of a lot more of them in the military than slinging insurance at State Farm (or whatever).

Dictators don't end up with the military as their private army ... They kill the military and put their private army in charge of the job.
I didn't say that the Military wouldn't fight itself in the conflict ... There are factions that would side with both the government ... and the with the People.

It still comes back to my point in asking you the basic question of what you do about dictators if you are unwilling to fight them?
Once you understand that you have to fight them ... The last thing you are going to want to do is alienate anyone in the military ... Because to them, that makes you a liability on the battlefield.

You don't have to love war or power to fight for you rights or survival.

 

Most of the military people I've met are freedom-loving and actually know the Constitution. Due to that, I really can't imagine them turning against us. The civil war is an example of when military people abandoned the military to fight with the people.

 

Which civil war was that?

 

Ok I don't know why you're going on about how people would take down a dictator since that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm saying successful dictators always have the military on their side and so if such a thing happened in the USA it is a virtual certainty it would be the US Military backing him up.

You can debate all day whether such an event would occur, but that's not what I was talking about. Though I am doubtful, given America's recent government, they are above forming a fascist state or the like,

 

I don't want to turn this into a civil war debate but that also shows they are not above picking the morally-inferior side.

 

Better question is, what would the means and motive be?

 

Just about everybody would stop him. Talk about paranoid right-wing babbling!

 

This is a very good and very important question that I would certainly ask myself, if I were American (esp).

To which I would give you this answer - yes. I can see that.

Why?

Here are several reasons to consider..


1) Symptomatic of their external sociopathy. That is to say, any good American citizen that doesn't watch corporate media, they are well aware that for decades now, their Fed Gov have been behaving in a manner that any sane and good person would see as clearly the actions from the minds of sociopaths. This has increased and gotten worse, decade after decade. Now you have an entire Fed Gov that is corrupt, sociopathic, and clearly thinks nothing of killing or creating the conditions for killing. It would be a remarkable leap of faith to believe a cabal of outright demented men could possibly never turn the sociopathic mind set internally. Indeed, doing so can be seen as an almost logical and inevitable outcome, unless their grip was broken.

2) All the pieces being put in place over the past 15yrs. The dubious acts that were passed on the basis of 'protecting freedoms', were clearly there to restrict or later remove freedoms. Things that they did under the banner of 'national security', really mean ' the protection of their own rackets'. They are more than mere gangsters that want to accumulate wealth at the cost of Americans and everyone else. They seek power for the sake of power. That's a stronger allure for them than money. This is why you, as an American, live in a v different America to the one of decades ago. They have gradually made more laws, rules, restrictions, they have taken your entire private life away with their NSA, and they went berserk when Snowden let you know a bit of what was going on. Not because they feared it would undermine your security. Because they feared it would undermine them.

3) You law enforcement agencies are becoming more and more like the Stasi and the NKVD with each passing year. It is no longer a few random bad apples, but the entire orchard that is bad. Further, and for reasons best known to them(but I can guess), they have been training alongside some extremely strange groups, one of which was a division of the the law enforcement in Bahrain(sure it was there), who are notorious for extreme violence against innocent and righteous protestors.

4) By now 1-3 should let you understand that they are not doing all of this for no reasons at all, and because they are bored. They are simply preparing. For something big. Just LOOK at it. Of course they are. The Dept of Home Sec still refuse to give a clear answer as to why they felt the need to order such a large quantity of hollow point bullets. Indeed, last I looked they refused to answer at all. And now it has been forgotten. Also, do not forget that last year, law enforcement officials in the US had purchased a supply of targets that were made to look like children, and women holding babies. The order was only cancelled(they say), when it leaked into the public domain.

5) Look to history. Your OWN. Fed Gov have never stopped doing terrible things to Americans since the end of WW2. It's just that most are kept secret until LONG after the fact. MK ULTRA. A total violation that should have pretty much brought down the CIA and called for something far more accountable. Instead of that, most of the records were destroyed at the call of the then head of the CIA. Makes you wonder what was in all of those, esp when you read about the data that we do know of. It would seem logical to me that if they could think so little of US citizens then, that the same psyche exists today. And worse.

6) Over the past few years, they have taken the word terrorist, and morphed it. Gradually. Then they drip it out. Gradually. First terrorist. Then 'domestic terrorist'. Then it will be a whole bunch of other related terms, that then give them licence to persecute anyone they do not like.

7) Recruitment. It is my considered view that there has been an orchestrated and gradual attempt to recruit a different type of man to law enforcement and the armed forces. In short.. one that would blindly obey all orders, even if it was against American citizens.

If it can happen in China and Russia(because absolute power corrupts), it can happen in the US. You can invent reasons why this is 'impossible', but it's not. Esp not when you take 1-7 into account.

 

Really.

Have you personally seen and tested this gold?

And who do you think protects it?

 

Yeah. So long as they get what they want, they're fine with whatever happens.

 

The Commander in Chief is the President, who is elected by the people. Hence it's under civilian control. It's something that could easily be broken but here, the worst we have is an imperator trying to stage a coup.

 

The American civil war. Many members of the U.S. military jumped ship to be with their people--that is the confederate military.

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Yes, some stuck to the central government loving federal government side. The rest were on the right side Slavery was not an issue until the end of the war when Lincoln used it as a propaganda tool.

 

Yeah I'd figured you'd go there.

I cannot, from a moral standpoint, defend the CSA. At all. In fact, I am pleased they got obliterated.

That's all I'll say. Now you Southern avengers can go and spew your hate about how I don't understand why they actually seceded or how there were justifications for keeping slaves or whatever. I don't care, the place was morally bankrupt and I have no sympathy for it.

 

oh, I bet it would be higher than 64%.

 

They already have. They work for the politicians, not you. You just pay their salaries under threat of imprisonment.

 

Not necessarily. Not in a way that you can certainly say a line has been crossed, or even that they are acting out of character. All the rough-housing you see with police- even if unjustifiable- is quite normal behavior on their part.

CaptainAngryPants (it's an effort to write that without laughing), is it impossible for the martial forces of a state to be used against it's own citizens in violation of their rights?

While there are means and motives, it's complicated to list because it could be a whole host of them depending on the person. What inspired the secret police and death squads of nations like Germany, Italy, Russia, Serbia, Iraq, and so many others to turn against their own citizens and inflict varying degrees of violence and torture on them?

What inspires one group of people to sit back and tolerate the abuse and torment of another people with almost no real protest?

 

On top of what I said in my last but one post, the drift over the past decade or two, it has not surprised me.

The drift is toward literally affording more far reaching powers, and without public support of them, to the 'executive'. You can call that 'Obama' or whatever else, since he is at least superficially the 'commander in chief', but since almost everyone on the planet realises that US Presidents are little more than actors and figureheads, although more powers(and some not yet used) have been shifted into the hands of the 'commander in chief', because he is always merely the front man(and eventual fall guy), the power is really shifted more into the hands of those than put him up, finance him, and their affiliates.

 

Your statement makes absolutely no sense of any kind.