Is the only viable alternative to the Affordable Care Act single-payer?

"The obvious solution is to expand it to cover everyone."

Taxcutter says:
No. The obvious solution is to get government out of the health care insurance business altogether. Robbing half the people (the taxpayers) to pay for a health care system that covers moochers is nothing but robbery with the dirty work outsourced to government.

 

Cool, let's be like them, sounds good.

 

Study capitalism and history.

 

Paying out of pocket is cheaper until something bad happens.

That's why people have insurance.

Of course you're young and think you're invincible and immortal, and that you know it all.

None of which is correct.

 

On your part, apparently, because I never made such a claim.

 

That's why when you're young buy major medical. It costs a fraction of full boat insurance but covers thing like being injured in a car wreck or if you happen to be that very rare twenty something that does get cancer.

 

Is the only viable alternative to the Affordable Care Act single-payer?

Well with 47% of the American people not paying Federal Taxes, that would leave 53% of Americans picking up the whole tab. Can you imagine the tax that those 53% would have to pay to cover all Americans?

Now if we make 11 million illegals, citizens. How many of those do you thing would fall under the poverty guide line and add to that 47%. Now we have less than half the country picking up the whole tab. Think we can afford that?

 

Sure, if that young person can set aside $10,000 in cash that is not needed for anything else, then the High Deductible Plan may be an option.

The State of Florida (where I am retired from) Group Health Insurance Plan has a High Deductible option.

http://www.myflorida.com/mybenefits/pdf/PremiumRateChartMay2013.pdf

The total cost of the family plan is only $1213 a month compared to $1329 a month for the "full boat" plan as you call it.

That's a saving of a whopping 8.7%!

For a single person the costs are $587/month vs. $552 for the High Deductible option.

Whoop De Do!

 

By all means go ahead and keep writing off 47% of the population as slackers and losers.

It worked so well for ya last election.

 

End Obamacare and Medicaid. Keep Medicare. Replace Medicaid taxes with a child medical care tax to give tax payer funded medical treatment to children that are not covered under their parents health insurance. I would not object if this child medical care tax was raised to include mentally disabled non insured people as well as the children.

Everyone else is on their own. And, the tax that replaces the medicaid tax would be significantly lower so the overall tax burden of average Americans goes down. Plus all the savings from eliminating Obamacare.

 

Nope.

Medicare for all.

HR 676

http://www.pnhp.org/publications/united-states-national-health-care-act-hr-676

Final offer.

Take it, or this time, it's our turn to shut down the government.

Only this time it's 100% shutdown.

No military, no medicare, no social security, no nuthin.

 

No deal, but we can iron this out right now.

I'll go for the full shutdown, no medicare, no social security, no nuthin... But full funding for the Military.

That is solid compromise from both of us. Deal?

 

Why you would now pretend you had never opined, "we all know how partisan you are and that you've been in for single payer from the start," is foolish.

The question that I posed is, "Is the only viable alternative to the Affordable Care Act single-payer?," and I have cited several extant, inclusive, more effective, more efficient, far less expensive national systems. You have not yet posed a single real world example of a better system that comports with your ideological litmus test.

If you ever find one, I would apply my pragmatic criteria to it. If it affords better healthcare to all at half the cost, I would readily embrace it, even if it were a libertarian's wet dream, unbridled free-market capitalism free of all regulation.

So far, you have offered nothing real, merely kvetched about what does exist.

 

Nope, all or nuthin pal.

You don't get to pick the pieces of Big Government that you like and dump this rest.

I'm not running a ******ned cafeteria.

[video=youtube;TLfmEZYdtrY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLfmEZYdtrY[/video]

 

I have two alternatives expand Medicaid to 400% of the poverty line, add premiums and more costs based on income and ration care, use foreign tourist hospitals and the like to cut costs while beefing up other areas like doctors pay and tort reform to make suing Medicaid only providers very hard. Then end all indigent care funding to states and naturally Medicaid would be Federalized all costs and operations would leave the state control. States would be expected to make up the lost funds to other programs if they don't to bad.

The other alternative take all the funding for Medicaid, ACA taxes and other indigent funding into a big pot of money. Give every citizen a medical ID with their insurance, income rating and all to be scanned after getting medical care. If someone is poor and not insured they get paid from the funds eery quarters their share based on how many providers treated patients. And they must continue care for health conditions getting paid the same way. Its like the hospitals they must treat regardless of the ability to pay this would build on that. And ban Medical providers from scanning the card until after care. If say the pot had $100 and two hospitals and four doctors had to get their cut each would get a share of that $16.66 for those patients as a crude example. You could adjust that with a formulae but the idea is they get what they get and have to make it up somewhere else.

 

HAHAHA. Love it.

Alright, it looks like we're back to square one. Me advocating for smaller gov't and you calling me a extreme nut job for it. I feel all warm and fuzzy already!!

 

You lose the whole point. If you want single payer, the government has to get the money from Federal tax payers. If you have half the country paying no Federal taxes, where in hell do you get the money? I love the way Liberals talk about all the freebees they want with no idea of how to pay for it.

 

If you have a heart attack, are diagnosed with any form of cancer, get into a car accident, are injured on the battlefield of Afghanistan or in the community organized streets of Chicago we have the best trauma care, need a prosthesis? we are number 1 there too, and if you have a stroke you are far more likely to recover in an American hospital compared to any other in the world. You can't name a treatment category where we don't trounce other nations can you? I dont care about lists that list costs, I am talking about quality. My old Chevy Tracker was cheap. Nearly cost me my life, except that we have the greatest trauma care in the world so I walked away fine after a few weeks. Proud to be an American.

 

Oh I know, we will make the rich buy it for everyone. Surely they can pay for everything I want. I earned it, because they exploited me somehow. I am not going to prove it to you with any specifics. They are just evil, and didn't really earn anything so I should feel free to take whatever I want from them. It makes me compassionate, and makes them greedy.

 

You can be grateful for the taxpayer funding of the National Institutes of Health that have, indeed, facilitated significant medical advances in the US, but where is the comparative data to sustain your boast of unconditional superiority?

No American should be proud of paying twice as much as advanced nations for a system that fails to cover 48 million fellow citizens. Confidence that the US can devise a system the does cover everyone at reasonable cost is reason for pride, not resignation to the status quo as some fancied Panglossian nonpareil.

Abandon your hollow boosterism, and accept the objective reality. It's not as simple as you wish to pretend, and the quality of American care may well rate as high as it does due to to Medicare, however loathed by blinkered ideologues.

 

That is not what I said ... And why I said people should have Catastrophic Insurance to cover the something really bad happening.
You don't have to be young to figure out how not to be dependent on someone always bailing you out ... Or always worrying about what can happen.

Take care of yourself ... Use the money you are wasting on worrying about Social Security, Insurance or a Government Safety Net of any kind to secure your own well-being.
Avoid the damn situations that put you at risk of needing help from someone else ... Avoid throwing money down a rat-hole in attempts to become a servant of the government.

Although it is becoming obviously apparent that the people who do what they need to do to become prosperous ... Are soon going to be the ones bailing everyone else out.
It is a crying shame that grown people sit around and talk about what can happen ... What can go wrong ... And are too stupid to see the simple fix of putting your money to better use than the government ever will.

 

But we do have health care for all Americans and foreigners. It's those that have health care through their employer. All the rest are covered through our Emergency Centers and County Hospitals.
But our emergency centers are one of the most expensive kinds of care we can give. Why do we force them to go there for everything? If they have a cut finger and need stitches, why can't they have that and other non emergency things done at these Urgent care centers all around the cities? We could save billions if we done that. Then our biggest problem would be those that need long time care like cancer patients. We could go a long way in funding them with the billions we saved with Urgent Care Centers.

 

Who pays?

That would be the diminishing number of Americans who are federally subsidized to the tune of a $250 billion annually.

... and where the uninsured, without a family physician are far more apt to go, and that most expensive care billed to the taxpayer.

They're one sound approach for reducing cost, but who foots the bill?

 

Is the only viable alternative to the Affordable Care Act single-payer?

Yes.

 

Most conservatives I speak with, the REAL problem they have with Obamacare isnt the cost. Its that PEOPLE WHO DONT DESERVE IT WILL GET HEALTH CARE.


THats the #1 reason that most conservatives tell me they hate OBamacare. That it "removes personal responsibility" and that people "Wont be punished for their mistakes"


Those are, as far as I can tell, the MAIN reasons that conservatives HATE a single payer national health care system that covers everyone.