Is the only viable alternative to the Affordable Care Act single-payer?

I would agree that it's more or less inevitable. It's entropy after all. But a lot of damage has already been done to the individual and employee health care market. Many of those companies that dropped plans because of Obamacare costs probably won't be going back even if Obamacare is repealed. However that is less likely thanks to the shutdown scheme.

And of course the individual health insurance market is totally wrecked. Anyone who wasn't in a grandfathered plan is stuck with Obamacare, they have no choice.

 

Up for the challenge then? Pick any countries system and we will compare it with ours and our population and lets see of it does or doesn't cost more live then war. Lets take a look. Cherry picking statistical noise in small health categories from small countries may work, I grant you that but there is a good reason you didn't look at overall cancer.

As far as your Medicare thing goes - it is a very expensive way to buy 80% coverage and it doesnt cover the best hospitals and doctors who trounce even our national average. We have your friends on the left complaining about that in the "Medicare single payer" thread. God knows why, but they though it helped their case.

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The grandfathered plans are not obamacare compliant and come with a yearly fine. Small at first but then it grows. Most healthcare providers in FL are phasing them out too.

 

No, it is the cost and the results we worry about. Just one example of many, the euros piggyback on our medical and pharma innovations. Even Merck in Germany was ours until they stole it. Without the strong profit motive you get when government monopolizes medicine innovation will decline. For the same reason it would decline in any industry whose profits were dried up or reduced. One of many reasons.

Whatever happened to families taking care of each other? Is government your daddy now? Looking to get on some of that subsidy?

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What a well reasoned argument. Who has come up with more medical innovations in human history, our market health care model in the last 200 years or the all rest of the world combined in all of recorded history?

 

Who has been paying all these years? Show me how we can have single pay with half the country out of work, or below the poverty line. Where will all those taxes come from for a nation wide government run health care?

 

Um, undocumented aliens can't buy insurance off the exchange. I don't know how many of them use ERs, but it WOULD be better to have them purchase insurance. But no, we don't let them.

But they aren't that large a proportion of our overall medical costs.

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Unless you had a pre-existing condition, or had kids over 18 who weren't in college or if you ran up against your limits or ...

well actually, health care insurance WASN'T doing Ok in 2006

 

Yes they are. A huge part of the problem.

 

which is why we don't live as long...oh wait...

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link?

if so, a great reason to allow them to buy in to the exchanges.

 

How about a link from you where you state it is not a big problem. I have already linked two news articles in this thread.

 

The Unaffordable Health Care Act WILL help a lot of people - such as welfare queens and drug addicts. Thank God for the middle class and private enterprise that are being forced to fund this waste.

 

[video=youtube;pCPlC9ZXw_g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCPlC9ZXw_g[/video]

 

Sorry you didn't understand. A pre nancy and harry care major medical plan would ahve cost you about fifty bucks a month. And would have covered all expenses caused by an accident or a bout with cancer for a person under 30. They could do it because the issue only hit about 1 person in 1000 or less.

 

Cmon taxcutter youre alot smarter than to try an associate the abolition of slavery to giving americans who cant afford healthcare half ass health insurance.

Everyone seems to forget that y ou and I and everyone else has been paying for their healthcare from day one anyway. Its alot cheaper paying for someone to have health insurance to go to a family doctor that keeps them out of the hospital than it is to pay 2500 bucks for a trip to the emergency room.

 

"Unless you had a pre-existing condition, or had kids over 18 who weren't in college or if you ran up against your limits or ..."

Taxcutter says:
In short, if you were part of a tiny minority. So what ObamaTax does is to impoverish hundreds of millions to help out a tiny minority. Franklin's dicta for good government ran along the lines of "the greatest good for the greatest number." In no way shape or form does ObamaTax come in line with Franklin's maxim.

Note: I said the Republic was doing A-OK in 2006. The only ones not doing A-OK were that previously discussed tiny minority. My health care insurance was doing OK. But then, I wasn't in this tiny minority which now wants to mooch off the vast majority.

 

Hell NO!
Single Payer is a train wreck. Ask any average Joe in Canada or Britain! We should back up and make sensible changes to the existing system by working together and actually reading measures and debating them as opposed to passing unread laws blindly!

 

"...try an associate the abolition of slavery to giving americans who cant afford healthcare half ass health insurance."

Taxcutter says:
What I am associating is the persistent effort it takes to get rid of bad law. Slavery = bad law. ObamaTax = bad law. Getting rid of either will take more than casual effort.

 

That's the dogmatic party line for ideologues, but the reality is that several nations, such as Israel, provide high quality care for everyone at half the price.

The true believers can't refute the empirical data.



Why are those in a tizzy over nationalized WillardCare or the superior single-payer systems of advanced nations unable to point to a single, actual example of a successful free market system with no government involvement? Their ideal is the stuff of fantasy.



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Why do t you want nationalization of other industries?

Let me get that countries name like we discussed before to see if their lower recovery rates would cost us more lives then war.

 

I don't favour nationalization of any industries. Do you regard Medicare as a private industry that has been nationalized?

If you like to believe that the US healthcare system is the best on earth despite its costing twice as much as advanced nations and failing to cover 48 million Americans, do you recognize the need for reform? How would you reform it if al all?