Rebuilding The Middle Class

Less Humanity, Less Awareness of Shame​

Shame on you, Bobov.
Recommended reading - Upton Sinclair, "The Jungle".
http://www.amazon.com/The-Jungle-Dover-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486419231

Remember, We of California also had the "Grape Boycott" and won consideration for Farm Workers.
And contrary to Bobov's Economic Attitudes, Bobov can still afford California grapes.

POINT:
America use to stand for something, even if we forgot to intervene in everything.
Importation of goods manufactured by "slave labor" factories as exist in China assembling Apple products should be prohibited. Likewise, Child labor.
Factories with higher pollution rates then allowed in the West should face a tariff.
And Bobov will still be able to afford the products just as he can afford California Table grapes. <ta-da>


Moi

 

The jungle was later denounced as mostly Michael Moore like propaganda. US food supply had its highest period of food poisoning as a % after the establishment of the FDA and decades after the response to that book.

You there in California would probably go to a field and eat a piece of fruit without government inspection but claim you require it. You probably don't by the lowest quality food inspected, but rather trust quality retailers to only pick food from suppliers with superior standards.

 

Oh Johnny boy
California has a tradition of food quality standards beyond the Federal standards for over 100 years.
Florida no doubt would have no standards if it weren't for the Federals. What a shame.

Michael Moore means nothing to me except I know who he is.
Ralph Nadar succeeded in some of his efforts such as the safer cars we all drive.
Michael Moore for all his pouting has left no such result on our society.
And The Jungle by Upton Sinclair had a profound effect on America and subsequent food safety laws.
Michael Moore, no effect. Get it?
Florida yum pass the gator
I visited Florida. It reminded me of the San Fernando Valley. I'll take California, the Greatest State.


Moi
Have Some California Table Grapes.

 

I have seen what you people call "oranges" and "honeybells" and I am not impressed by those standards at all.

He is a propagandist like upton Sinclair. They lie to sell panic and movies/books.

No, the corvette was later deemed safe and his book based on bad science. The free market came up with all safety features worth a damn.

So you know who he is?

So you have to be a succesful propagandist?

They aren't sweet, I grow my own muscadines. You keep em. Go have another race riot I will eat a Carrie mango you can't step too.

(I did notice you dodged all the questions presented to you though)

 

Those of us who live in New Jersey (The Garden State) or New York (The Empire State) know that the best oranges come from the produce department of the supermarket.

 

Corvair, not Corvette. Very, very different cars.
From now on please reference your claims, thank you.

Point: Sinclair and Nadar changed the way things are done in America. Like it or not, they did.
Moore has not. Nor has your President Obama

Moi

 

My bad. Same story. Your precious government even say they were safe.

Your president Obama. You are the leftist remember?

Knew I was right about the oranges too huh?

 

What Is A Valid Opinion ?​

What a way to acknowledge one's error. And name calling too.
Whether it is oranges or whatever, please, johnmayo, YOU need to supply references.
Valid opinions should have a point of solid foundation as opposed to "how I feel about it". Si?
______________________________________________________________

Now more on topic
How Much Tax Payer Money has been paid out to the biggies ala TARP and Bernanke Dollars.
Divided by the total number of Americans, how much is that per capita ?
I am trying to figure how much we have all contributed to the perps who create our economic mess.
Thank You

Moi

 

I am messing with you on the fruit. Honeybells, sapodillas, and a carrie mango from Florida are my picks. Keep the cherries, apples etc.. Not my thing.

I am no fan of either of those things. Glad we see eye to eye there. (TARP was not all bad, government backed securities after all, a deal is a deal - plus it was paid back even at cheap interest - the 850 billion stimulus afterwards was the real train wreck - big spending for nothing )

We have only lost 53 billion on TARP so far:

http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

We lost far more on the stimulus, the Americans recovery act. This is the real boondoggle:
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/default.aspx

What Obama should have done is breathed some confidence in the economy, rather then try to play businessman and class warrior.




Bernacke bucks is troubling to me, I would like Austrians running the show right now.


We let them discredit the tea party which fights the things you seem worried about.

 

I remember the Grape Boycott. It occasioned a joke in a Woody Allen movie - "once, for 24 hours, I refused to eat grapes." Your sense of economics is similarly funny.

 

What would have happened had there been no TARP? Just think it through yourself. You're hung up on the fact that a lot of money went to businesses that, at that time, had vast negative net worths. Suppose those businesses had all closed?

Bernanke dollars? As I explained in a PM, these are one of the main funding sources for the US government; it's how the government prints money to pay its bills. Here's how it works: Obama & Co. spend more than the government has; the Treasury asks the Federal Reserve Bank for a loan to help cover the shortfall; the Fed prints the money and loans it to the Treasury; the Treasury gives the Fed IOUs in the form of Bills, Notes, and Bonds. This isn't a windfall for the rich; it's a windfall for whoever the government gives money to.

 

Please.
The sum of TARP + Bernanke Dollars to date = X
What is X.
X is paid for by me whether by tax money or diluting my money with unsubstantiated "new" money.

Then.
Divide X by the population and offer a per capita please.
I am looking for a figure representing how much each American has paid into the recovery, bipartisanly = RepubloCratically.
Not the obscure justifications and differences in the fine print.


Moi

 

What destroyed the middle class? In an word. globalism. After World War 2, all of the industrialized country were destroyed. Only America finished the war intact. So what happened. We were the engine of Democracy. The rest of the world set us their money, we sent them product. If anyone on this planet wanted a finished good they had to buy it from us. Just as the Arabs dominate oil, we dominated manufacturing. And as anyone knows, manufacturing are good paying jobs. Then came the 70's and the rise of Japan. They were able to produce well made products cheap. They began to compete with us. Not only Japan but Germany as well. Then other countries joined in like the rest of Europe. By the time Reagan came to power, there was talk about how America will become a service economy. Our industrial base was destroyed by foreign competition.

What can be done? One good solution that can turn the US into an industrial power house again is implementing the FairTax. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer. If the FairTax is the law of the land, capitalist from around the world will come here to do business. Why? Because every dollar they make, they keep. Why open up shop abroad and pay taxes when they can operate in the USA tax free.

The net result is a job boom. When there is a job on every corner, then people can start demanding hire paying jobs. People get pay raises when employees are in demand because an employee can tell an employer they guy down the street want to pay me more money for the same job. Can you match it? If not, you take the other job. Regular pay raises mean the return of the middle class.

 

If one wants to "rebuild" the middle-class, the answer is simple--prohibit refinancing of mortgages. One cannot understand economics if they do not understand finance.

 

Bravo
"Like" and "Reputation Tag" too.

In the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave we have NO Choice in our elections
regarding economic policy. It is all about RepubloCratic policy.
2014, 2016 opt out of the RepubloCratic game, support the Third Party of your choice as an investment in 2020.
Among RepubloCrats there is no Lesser of Evils. Only the bigger liar. Witness Obama, Hope and Change.
When enough of us opt out, we wedge "them" apart and get choice. History demonstrates this.

Anti RepubloCratism is the road back for the Middle Class,
betrayed by the suppression of historical Progressive politics by well monied Liberals among Democrats.
And Bushenomics - TARP never helped no working man.


Moi

 

Austrians adhere to much to ideology.

I prefer Chicago - Austrian thought adapted for reality.

 

They done a lot to twist what Chicago economics means. Checkout what krugman says friedman would do. Apparently friedman would have thought the stimulus wasnt enough hundreds of billions and would have wanted more government spending - according to krugman.

 

It's far too late to build the middle class. Almost half the wealth is owned by 1% of the population and there is no getting that back. Hats off to the right for drinking the koolaid and fighting for tax breaks for the super rich. Soon, the USA will be like Ireland 200 years ago, with a handful of people owning everything. There will be only two classes, and neither will be in the middle.

 

Great question. What if there had been no TARP? Considering that only 22 billion of the 700 billion was spent on buying "toxic assets" I imagine if there had been no TARP that would not have been 678 billion dollars that were spent in areas that we were lied to about.

 

That does seem to be the case here.

 

We can thank Obama for the last 4 plus years for impoverishing the middle class. On a whole, Middleclass Americans are poorer today than they were on January 21, 2009.

 

Rather, we can thank Bush for the preceding 8 years of elitist tyranny that has led us up to this tipping point. As a whole, the richest of the rich are richer today than at any other time in our history.

 

1) Recession

2) Capitalism outsourcing

3) NAFTA

4) Bush Tax cuts

5) Obama administration spending cuts (spending cuts during a recession do nothing but widen the gap between the rich and the poor).

Pretty much sums it up.

The biggest thing is to raise taxes on billionaires but they bribe Congress so that will never happen. This all started with Reagan's crooked behind.

 

Elitist Tyranny? The Democrats were for the war before they were against it. Democrats took the majority by Hook or Crook in 2007 and sabotaged every move of Pres. Bush. They knowingly pushed the Mortgage Bubble crash. Yes Bush spent $5.1 Trillion on running the Country and the War in 8 years. Obama spent $6.5 Trillion in less than 4 years with nothing, nothing to show for it but more poverty and destruction of the Middleclass and he's not done yet. Obama's credibility is zero in running America, and foreign policy.

 

It was 'all Obama's fault' then....my mistake. He just popped in there and created all this mess on his own. I knew that...you got me.