Remember when there was no al Qaeda active in Iraq?

In my own option these strikes are making it easier for for AlQaeda to recruit. http://youtu.be/Sify2ukTPm0

 

To which you then chimed in with my request for proof with....

So, one would assume that a large scale operation requiring the deliberate targeting of children to die would be a policy of some kind by the government. And since you have and are still arguing that the policy if deliberate in some way, please prove it.

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Of course it is, that's why you are here is it not? And, why AQ uses the internet so well. It's called propaganda.

 

Again never said that. I was stating the fact that this administration was covering up the numbers of innocents killed including children. So please don't put words in my mouth.

 

So the US government does not deliberately kill civilians then?

Oh, edited the above post to more accurately reflect what was said as I originally quoted the other mistaken poster without posting your equally mistaken comments which is what we are talking about.

 

Nope but lie about how many and how often they do.

 

Alright, so we have clarified that point and you agree that the US does not deliberately target woman, children and civilians.

 

The Marines wiped out al-Qaeda in Fallujah.

Why can't the wonderful Iraqi army stop them?

 

You're using the same argument that has been shot down so many times in this forum..

 

Silly argument from you. The oil price went up due to the violence that the US led invasion brought to Iraq after "the war was won". This violence was not in the plan of the American government, the plan being "we will have cheap oil after we invade"

 

No. Al-Quieda were not in Iraq at that time.

 

The Marines didn't wipe out Al-Qaeda in Fallujah because they were never there at the time mate.
And to answer your question, the Iraqi army is almost non existent and under trained by goold ol' USA.

 

Was it worth Americans spending several trillion dollars and sacrificing thousands of lives to topple an enfeebled dictator who repressed the populace, tolerated an ancient Christian community, prevented terrorists from gaining a foothold, and possessed no significant ordinance to threaten the US or the region?

The destabilization of a nation that served as a counterbalance to Iran's regional suzerainty whilst unleashing sectarian violence, fostering political corruption, and creating a previously-denied venue for al Qaeda was a monumentally disastrous contrivance of the Bush and his handlers who controlled him.

​

Apologists for the enormous fiasco appear ludicrous in the face of the undeniable results. A few hard cases who flailed the pom poms for the disaster still can't own up to having been wrong.

Those who opposed it must resist the urge to be smug.

 

What made up BS. That isnt Bin Laden pictured.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Bin_Laden_and_Brzezinski

 

The Congress makes the following findings:
(1) On September 22, 1980, Iraq invaded Iran, starting an 8 year war in which Iraq employed chemical weapons against Iranian troops and ballistic missiles against Iranian cities.
(2) In February 1988, Iraq forcibly relocated Kurdish civilians from their home villages in the Anfal campaign, killing an estimated 50,000 to 180,000 Kurds.
(3) On March 16, 1988, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iraqi Kurdish civilian opponents in the town of Halabja, killing an estimated 5,000 Kurds and causing numerous birth defects that affect the town today.
(4) On August 2, 1990, Iraq invaded and began a 7 month occupation of Kuwait, killing and committing numerous abuses against Kuwaiti civilians, and setting Kuwait's oil wells ablaze upon retreat.
(5) Hostilities in Operation Desert Storm ended on February 28, 1991, and Iraq subsequently accepted the ceasefire conditions specified in United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (April 3, 1991) requiring Iraq, among other things, to disclose fully and permit the dismantlement of its weapons of mass destruction programs and submit to long-term monitoring and verification of such dismantlement.
(6) In April 1993, Iraq orchestrated a failed plot to assassinate former President George Bush during his April 14-16, 1993, visit to Kuwait.
(7) In October 1994, Iraq moved 80,000 troops to areas near the border with Kuwait, posing an imminent threat of a renewed invasion of or attack against Kuwait.
( On August 31, 1996, Iraq suppressed many of its opponents by helping one Kurdish faction capture Irbil, the seat of the Kurdish regional government.
(9) Since March 1996, Iraq has systematically sought to deny weapons inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) access to key facilities and documents, has on several occasions endangered the safe operation of UNSCOM helicopters transporting UNSCOM personnel in Iraq, and has persisted in a pattern of deception and concealment regarding the history of its weapons of mass destruction programs.
(10) On August 5, 1998, Iraq ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM, and subsequently threatened to end long-term monitoring activities by the International Atomic Energy Agency and UNSCOM.
(11) On August 14, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-235, which declared that `the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations' and urged the President `to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations.'.
(12) On May 1, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-174, which made $5,000,000 available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition for such activities as organization, training, communication and dissemination of information, developing and implementing agreements among opposition groups, compiling information to support the indictment of Iraqi officials for war crimes, and for related purposes.
SEC. 3. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS REGARDING UNITED STATES POLICY TOWARD IRAQ.

It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

 

But lie about yep. Point clarified

 

Americans know that the Bushies contrived the disastrous fiasco by hyping fraudulent intel.

Desperate attempts to diffuse the blame by dragging out all the tired, old flimsy excuses are futile.

As the veteran of Iraq who was shot and paralyzed just five days into his deployment had predicted:

"The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history," he wrote. "It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—Iraq was a failure."

... a reality that no amount of wriggling can result in escaping the truth, nor the responsibility.

 

Al Qaeda was a byproduct created by a vacuum that was left in Afghanistan after the Russians were kicked out. The CIA up and left after training Afghans and insurgents from neighboring countries who joined the fight against the Russians. The CIA left tons of weapons behind to include the deadly stinger missiles. The CIA left the place in a mess. Bin Laden was one of the insurgents from Saudi Arabia who organized the group into what we now know of as Al Qaeda.

 

That's not a prediction. The vet obviously wrote that after the Iraq War, otherwise he would not have had all the facts that were known after the war. Truth be known, it was Colin Powell who sold me on going to war. His speech at the UN was absolutely convincing. Prior to that speech I already had lot's of respect for him. I have no doubt Powell read the same intel Bush did. If the intel was in fact hyped, it was hyped by a number of different spy agencies from many countries. And let's not forget the list of prominent democrats who voted for the war. One of those being a possible candidate for the 2016 election. Hillary Clinton is known for being a hawk, not a dove. Will you be voting for her if she runs?

 

So why can't the wonderful Iraqi army stop them now?

 

Really? In 1998 Bush "contrived" the finds of the Congress? Can you explain how he did that? Between 1998 and 2002 he "contrived" to get Democrats to keep repeating what they had been saying all along? Exactly how did he "contrive" that?

Did he "contrive" the next nominee for the Democrat Presidential campaign to say these things? Not according to her if you dare to listen. You can skip to about 1:30

[video=youtube;HtK9AzcU42g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtK9AzcU42g[/video]

Ignoring the fact we could not allow Saddam to remain in power. Your unnamed source who claims authority simply because he served in the military ignores that fact.

Obama asked for the job and he failed, we now see the result so stop trying to wriggling out of the facts.

 

There was only one thing they got wrong. The WMD UNSCOM had cataloged and were in the process of destroying before they were kicked out had greatly deteriorated as Saddam attempted to hide them. An arsenal that would have barely filled a back yard swimming pool.

What else did they get wrong?

 

Whose they? It wasn't just US spy agencies that provided intel.

 

In the mindless frenzy after the 9/11 attacks, many were complicit dupes, including Powell and Clinton. I suspect that most now regret it.

The neocons had exposed their objective to topple Hussein and impose permanent US military bases in Iraq in their 2000 PNAC, tipping their hand before they were in a position to pull it off. (Recall that they had already attempted to get Bill Clinton to buy into their designs on Iraq and he had the sense to ignore them.)

Secretary of the Treasury Paul O'Neill revealed how they had obsessed over Iraq in the Bush's National Security meetings from the start - whilst ignoring the threat from al Qaeda.

As soon as al Queda had finally drawn their attention so dramatically, both Rumsfeld's lack of suspicions regarding al Qaeda and his eagerness for an excuse to invade Iraq are a matter of record:

Where are these 'stockplies of wmd' again, Mr Secretary?

​

.

"We know where they are.
They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."​

Of course, a concerted propaganda campaign by the Bushies to conflate the disparate entities followed until they had many actually believing Saddam was behind 9/11 despite a total lack of evidence to connect him to it.

Ahmad Chalabi, via "Curveball" had made sure the neocons were told what they wanted to hear and would not only buy into his personal agenda readily, but eagerly promote and embellish it, scary "mushroom cloud" rhetoric, et al.

Did anyone ever ask, "Since we have had daily fly overs in Iraqi airspace for years, why do we have no surveillance photographs of stockpiles of wmd, mobile biolabs being moved about, al Qaeda training bases, etc. A few pics from a high-altitude U-2 of a Soviet missile installation forty years before clinched that deal. Why not a single snap of naughty bits after thousands of low-altitude missions with vastly-improved photographic technology?


Were there those who recognized that the intel was bogus then, anticipated the disaster that was contrived, and said so? Of course.


... and the corrupt Maliki didn't give even let the Bush have a single, crumby base, and neither Ahmadinejad nor al Qaeda even dropped him a Thank you! note.


It's the biggest mistake in the history of US foreign policy, and most folks know it.



/

 

The same old worn out excuses for why Democrats and prominent politicians did what they did. Instead of giving them excuses, try holding them accountable. You certainly are quick to slam Republicans but just as quick to excuse Democrats. So typical of a partisan.

 

It was UNSCOM who had cataloged Saddam's WMD inventory, what do you think they were doing? They were in the process of gathering and destroying it when he kicked them out in 1998. The WMD that was never found and accounted for later.