September 10, 2001 truly was America's last great day, wasn't it ?!

The very fact that a group of individuals had the ability and will to attack us on 9/11, and the way our nation reacted afterwards, and the way the world has treated America since, to me, is all indicative of one thing - America's last great day was Sept 10th, 2001.

We used to be a lion owning the jungle. The other animals hated us but feared us. Then, a monkey in a tree (al Queda) threw a large rock and it really hurt us - the jungle fell silent in awe and took notice.

In full damage control we, the lion, went on the offensive in Iraq and Afghanistan to prove that we still were top dog - but it was a futile effort. The jungle realized we were not as strong as they thought.

Libya, Syria, Russia, Ukraine, and other nations are going on without us. Hell, even the global economy is not considering as as the beacon of value as it once used to . It's scary and sad, but I think it's all downhill from here. At best we're now one of a handful of superpowers, but we're losing that title as well.



Can someone please prove to me otherwise ?!

 

I totally agree with you mate. America is going down the (*)(*)(*)(*)ter.

 

The OP is very useful in that it perfectly illustrates the mindset of Leftists in general. When the going gets tough, the leftist mindset surrenders, and tells itself what has been lost, will never be regained. It wears this defeatist attitude like a badge of honor, and revels in the inevitable agreement they will receive from abroad.

In contrast, when the going gets tough, the Rightist mindset becomes more resolute, and recognizes that success is not measured in how many times one gets knocked down, but rather how many times one gets back up.

In short, Leftists are pessimists, and Rightists are optimists. Personally, I would choose optimism every time.

 

America is absolutely slowly sliding down those slippery porcelain walls. And we had such hopes for you...

 

I don't think there is anything to "prove" since you have not made a factual point. Otherwise you might go back to December 6, 1941. We had a stinging defeat the next day, but it wasn't the end of America.

If you are looking for a date in which American Decline began, I would go back to November 22, 1963, the assassination of JFK. The US has had Presidents assassinated before and we managed to drive on, but at the time, the dominate ideology could not accept that Kennedy was killed by a communist. They started devising all kinds of conspiracy theories to put the blame on people they felt much more comfortable blaming. As a result, the people in charge of government and America's elite institutions began hating and distrusting their own government. That still goes on today and although we are over JFK, we are not over the results of his assassination.

 

What have leftists "surrendered"?

Accepting reality isn't defeatism. Even the Tea Party says that the economy is broken. Of course, they blame the poor and immigrants... because supposedly poverty and immigration are a new thing.

It takes guts to grab the bull by the horns and tackle tough problems. Labeling, passing blame and whining about groups of Americans does no good other than make yourself feel better.

"Resolute" in what? Do you have a solution, and who is the victim?

Thanks for the "facts"... and so much impressive evidence was offered.

 

September 10th, 2001

The Bush administration asks congress to cut the anti-terrorism budget (as no real threat exists), and move the money to where it can be used to deal with the real threat to America.......Internet Porn....

Seriously, that really happened......

 

All this does not change the fact that America is going down the pooper whether you like it or not. If you had an open minded brain, you would realize that ANYTHING is possible. We are the modern version of the Roman Empire... All good things must come to an end.

 

According to the OP, we have surrendered the notion that America will have greater days ahead

Accepting reality isnt defeatism, however, when projecting out forever into the future that we will NEVER again see a day as great as 9-10-01, that isnt exactly objective reality. A lot of variables exist when projecting out decades or even centuries, and these variables necessarily supercede any projection being made by the OP.

My post wasnt an example of passing blame or whining, rather it was merely an observation by me that I perceive this mindset to be unproductively pessimistic.

Resolute in the notion that we as a nation can and will return to greatness.

We are talking about the future. ANYTHING is possible. I could cite a few contemporary issues with my belief for the solution, but that would be a waste of time. The OP is talking about the future in perpetuity, and thriving in the future is about adaptation to future circumstances. Throwing up your hands now and saying we will NEVER again be great, is nothing more than pessimist hand wringing.

We have been knocked down. That means it is time to start getting back up. Declaring that we will never again have the greatness that we held on 9-10-01 is not a productive mindset in the slightest. The mere fact that you are defending that mindset, only serves to bolster my point.

I posted my observation, and explained that observation. Were you expecting a "link" proving that the OP is a pessimist?

 

What would you have done differently?

 

Do you believe that liberal Americans don't want America to return to greatness?

 

Bush could have had Osama in 12 months if he really wanted to, but he didn't...

So Obama had to finish what Bush couldn't.

 

The OP is stating that America will never again attain the greatness it held on 9-10-01. Whether or not he WANTS greatness or not is irrelevant, in his mind that greatness will NOT be achieved. I dont pretend to know, or care what he wants. I am merely commenting on his fatalistic approach to the future, and how in my perception, that fatalistic approach is shared by most leftists.

I dont really think that you can argue that the OP isnt expressing a pessimistic viewpoint. The only thing that you could legitimately argue is whether or not most leftists are also pessimists. Since you have implied that "accepting reality isn't defeatism", I would say the generalization I made about leftists, is at LEAST accurate when it applies to you.

 

We'll be a third world socialist hell hole soon and third world socialist hell holes aren't great. If you're an optimistic you're indulging yourself in political escapism and fantasy., and no nation ever became great through either. Nations don't fall out of the sky wrapped in a bow, and that seems to be what everyone is waiting for.

Our only problem is Obama, right? If only we can elect Huckabee or Rick Perry, then the light of God will shine down from the heavens and bask over our country once again?

lol.

 

You illustrate my point perfectly. Thank you.

 

Nation's don't rise on pixie dust and optimism. You can save your Ronald Reagan tribute stump speeches for the campaigns. This is a political forum for political discussion where your unjustified optimism is worth about as much as your border security.

 

You are a pessimist that believes this nation has no other potential path than to be a third world hellhole. Duly noted. As I said, you illustrate my original point perfectly.

 

No, it wasn't.

9-11 defined some of the steps we had to take into the future, but no... it did not define our entire future; not by any means.

 

I think September 10th, 2001 was the last care-free day the USA will have, perhaps, for the rest of this generation. But it won't always be this way. There will be new generations who will live without terrorism weighing on their brain. I hope...

I think what has changed has little to do with greatness and more to do with innocents being lost. People's attitudes have changed since the attack. And, since the Iraq and Afghan wars people have become a lot more anti-war. So the USA will have a very hard time selling wars to the public in the future.

But, the rest of the world, while it's recovering from their initial losses of WW2 and are more prosperous and putting a strain on US economic growth, it's also the case that everyone suffered from the Global Recession. The USA is actually doing better at recovery than other nations. This has given us a little reprieve.

And since the Arab Spring, Americans have been more anti-interventionism than ever. This might be a bad thing regarding US power projections in the Future, but who are we kidding? The USA won't be a superpower after the mid-21st century mark. This is what the projections say.

As far as Russia and Ukraine, they are really hurting themselves economically by backsliding into violence like they have. Because of this they just set themselves backwards so their growth will be slow and they will be lesser powers in the future. Still dangerous though.

 

I agree with you, though the basis of our agreement will be on a different basis. The 9/11 attacks isn't what shaped the downfall of America, what shaped its downfall was LBJ's "war on poverty", his failed "great society" experiment created one of among several social welfare programs(the ACA being the latest in this folly). These programs of course, not only failed to alleviate poverty but they aren't even a safety net. They're life preservers. Barely, at that.

When one looks at the indicator of these socially failed programs, one may wonder: Are they being underfunded? Not at all. In fact, Social Security is the third highest on the budget. And while welfare takes 9% of the budget, that 9% needs to be put in context: A few billions annually. It should be enough to sustain the welfare of the country. But it's not.

Why not? Because even with billions in support, there's hundreds of millions of Americans. 46 million of which officially in poverty. Along with, as I said: The inefficency of judging poverty based on median income(although that's not the Actual Income taken in). It leaves much to be desired for a welfare program. Of course, not that I advocate for making the welfare program even larger.

But I argue in its inefficiency for a much better solution: Strengthening the markets. And thereby, that means strengthening Human Capital and Human Education.
Jobs will become readily apparent as the market becomes more skilled for the 21st century, it was something the President himself alluded to in a very rare point of national agreement.

Unfortunately, the president's words aren't to be met with action. Instead we think raising taxes up to 90% and the minimum wage will somehow fix the problem(though as noted, a few scarce people are actually on the minimum wage). Several economists point to an entirely different problem:

The loss of manufacturing jobs, the loss of real, actual labor in the country. With so many jobs focused on the technological spectrum and fewer labor jobs, those who previously were in the labor force now find themselves out of work. With little to no skills technologically, nor the money to be able to access college.

The education problem, is a grave problem one that exists k-12. And as one who actually went through the system, I can attest to it: One wanders through school, never actually thinking about a career, or a goal, or a livelihood. Much less any actual training for one such career. No, that's almost entirely collegiate in focus. But it's much too late! A mere 4 years is not enough to educate an adult on his preferred field.

Children have always been the quickest to absorb ideas, the ones quickest to absorb knowledge. We should reorganize schools to prepare even our children for their future livelihoods as adults. Education isn't so much education, as it is glorified baby sitting in America. Our kids deserve better. Art shouldn't be seen as an 'extracurricular activity' for the talented artist, but instead it should be the sole focus of his education. The same with children who are interested in mechanics, doctoring, etc.

Instead, we lay out the very basics of math, reading, etc. None of this BTW will ever actually be used(save for reading/writing). So our kids are filled with nonexistent knowledge, for nonexistent situations. Algebra, geometry, etc should be reserved for those who want to be in the field of science, computer programming, etc.

If I had it my way, 'education' as we know it, would cease to exist. It would instead be a full on, 24 X 7 training session for kids to become at their highest potential. I also want to make it so that our schools are far more eloquent than they are.

Private schools>>>>Public schools. Hell, public universities are far superior. Going to a public school is like going to a prison for children. The only difference between Public Schools and the juvenile detention center is the barbed wire.(The food BTW is still crappy).

I envision the eloquence and the power from eloquence of the old British Empire(and Empires of the past). We, as a 'lion' have allowed 45+ million Americans in poverty, ghetto areas, etc. These areas should no longer exist. Their very existence hurts our pride.

In many ways, the existence of the country today is proof that we fundamentally don't believe we're a lion. We don't believe in our own inner greatness. It's something we cling to, like a dream. That's why we have to transform the country, to meet our dreams and to meet our expectations. Of a grandiose country, of a powerful country. Of a country capable of protecting the dreams of our children.

I want to create the American Empire. A state worthy of our English-European heritage and power.

 

I think you're right
1941 of the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor
Roosevelt called all Americans to join in the war effort
2001 airplanes hit the world trade center
bush told everyone to keep going about their business and the same way they have
We really started going downhill when the far right began to gain any amount of political power
The reason being they put political gain ahead of good for the country
Notice that
They become very angry with any one in the Republican Party that tries to work with any one from the democratic party
They seem not to realize that they are in political office to run the government
And speak of the political opposition as enemies of the country and that they must be blocked at all cost

They became Very angry With Chris Christie When he treated the president of the United States with respect
And also with the speaker of the house he associated with the president On the golf course

This type of thinking on the part of members of our government will weaken a country
When one side can not Understand that we are all Americans but many of us have different opinions on which direction the country should go
And what our priorities should be Then the country will become weak and divided

Unfortunately many people seem to fall for the hate mongering coming from the right

 

When you import tens of millions of third worlders to displace and usurp your white first-world majority, you become a third world hell hole with no potential path back.
You should duly note that, too.

 

From 1930 three until 19 83
Liberals and moderates ran the country
Only when people Who could remember how the conservatives Ran the country in 1920s began to die or be too old to vote Did the conservatives gain any political power

And the sad part is most people do not realize that the conservatives today are calling for the exact same Policies That did not work in the 1920s
And ended with this country and a great depression

 

Your perception of hopelessness for the future has been well documented. You believe regardless of what takes place in the coming decades and centuries, that the future of this country is doomed. I would call that the very definition of pessimism. As such, I cant think of a more shining example of my original point, and for that I sincerely thank you for the assistance. Going forward however, there is no need for you to continue posting yet more examples of your pessimism. Since your pessimism is well established, it now is just an exercise in redundancy.

 

The United States only has one issue right now - It lost its Carthage