question for christians - again.

How did you first determine that your god is good?

I'd like to hear matter of fact accounts of how you arrived at this conclusion. In clear and practical terms, if I may be so bold.

Many thanks

 

no takers?

what steps did you take to ascertain god's goodness? did you weigh it up against other claims to perfection? if so, which claims were these? did you weigh up the Christian claims to god's perfection against your own ethics? or to those of someone you hold in high esteem?

if you (I know this is a stretch, and somewhat outlandish to suggest, but bear with me) DIDN'T take the time to ascertain that this god was indeed, good, why not? did you accept the claims of others? if you did accept the claims of others in this regard, what steps did you take to ascertain that such people or persons were of sound judgement? this could go on forever backwards, of course, but for the sake of this thread we'll leave it at the one or two degrees of separation.

 

Good luck getting a sensible answer to this one.


But I will tell you as a preachers kid brought up Baptist from day one that when I seriously asked myself this question it sent me on a search that ultimately led me to abandon Christianity and embrace the

notion that if there is a god it certainly isn't the one I read about in the Bible! I guess that leaves me in the category of Agnosticism. I think it would be foolish to not at least leave open the possibility of a first

cause. But I reject the silly notion of all these Gods that have so far been been peddled to the masses. If there is a creator it is something so far beyond our feeble comprehension that we should just

acknowledge we can never understand it's complexity.

 

perhaps that's why they're silent. there's the very real possibility that once you start to think this way, it's already too late. you can see the mechanics fairly readily ... "don't even ask questions about asking questions" and so on until the white noise blocks it out. it's like a tinnitus masker.

one of the questions I've long had, yet to be satisfactorily answered by any but a few friendly catholics, is pursuant to my OP, but I'll start another thread for that one

 

Are your intentions "good" when you ask such a question? How can we know what are your intentions? What motivates you to start this topic?

 

Determinations are for judges. If you insist on judging God, you may rest assured He will leave you to your own devices.

I could tell you, but I'm pretty sure it would be a rule violation.

 

and yet, you've DETERMINED that god is good. how does that work?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm genuinely interested in learning more about the mechanics of faith, especially when the primary selling point is 'goodness'. In the meantime, are you interested in helping me out?

 

I've done no such thing.

 

okay, I stand corrected. do you, then, view god as both good and evil, or just evil? (given you don't think he's good).

 

You have your son. You raise him according to what for you is the best for him. So, you establish the rules, that it can be assumed are "good" according to you.

Perhaps your methods are not acceptable by others, still for you your methods are the best for your son.

Your son loves you and he is obedient to your teachings. Your son believes in you that your methods are "good" and that will help him for his future.

So, what kind of "mechanisms" are you looking for?

Use the analogy describing the relationship between you and your son and you will find the answer to your question.

 

Does the father allow the child to come to their own conclusions as to what is good... or does the father dictate to the child that which is good? A combination thereof?

 

I would hope that sons of bad parents find the wisdom and fortitude to reject the bad model, and be better. Just as I would hope the sons of good parents follow the good path.
The important thing is that ALL sons, at some point, ask the question.

 

incidentally, this father/son thing is only analogous in earlier childhood. Once children are emancipated they ought to be making damn sure they're not perpetuating something bad, as referred to above.

Upshot, I dont have an answer.

 

Bad try.

 

Explain it to me, then. Please

 

It does not apply solely to childhood. Here is a biblical example of sons obeying their father, even in something that god YHWH never ordered. God YHWH uses the example of obedience of these sons towards their father, and gives them a reward for their "good" example.

Jeremiah 35.


1 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from YHWH during the reign of Jehoiakim son of Josiah king of Judah:
2 "Go to the Recabite family and invite them to come to one of the side rooms of the house of YHWH and give them wine to drink."
3 So I went to get Jaazaniah son of Jeremiah, the son of Habazziniah, and his brothers and all his sons--the whole family of the Recabites. 4 I brought them into the house of YHWH, into the room of the sons of Hanan son of Igdaliah the man of God. It was next to the room of the officials, which was over that of Maaseiah son of Shallum the doorkeeper.
5 Then I set bowls full of wine and some cups before the men of the Recabite family and said to them, "Drink some wine."
6 But they replied, "We do not drink wine, because our forefather Jonadab son of Recab gave us this command: 'Neither you nor your descendants must ever drink wine. 7 Also you must never build houses, sow seed or plant vineyards; you must never have any of these things, but must always live in tents. Then you will live a long time in the land where you are nomads.'
8 We have obeyed everything our forefather Jonadab son of Recab commanded us. Neither we nor our wives nor our sons and daughters have ever drunk wine
9 or built houses to live in or had vineyards, fields or crops.
10 We have lived in tents and have fully obeyed everything our forefather Jonadab commanded us.
11 But when Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon invaded this land, we said, 'Come, we must go to Jerusalem to escape the Babylonian and Aramean armies.' So we have remained in Jerusalem."
12 Then the word of YHWH came to Jeremiah, saying:
13 "This is what Almighty YHWH, the God of Israel, says: Go and tell the men of Judah and the people of Jerusalem, 'Will you not learn a lesson and obey my words?' declares YHWH.
14 'Jonadab son of Recab ordered his sons not to drink wine and this command has been kept. To this day they do not drink wine, because they obey their forefather's command. But I have spoken to you again and again, yet you have not obeyed me.
15 Again and again I sent all my servants the prophets to you. They said, "Each of you must turn from your wicked ways and reform your actions; do not follow other gods to serve them. Then you will live in the land I have given to you and your fathers." But you have not paid attention or listened to me.
16 The descendants of Jonadab son of Recab have carried out the command their forefather gave them, but these people have not obeyed me.'
17 "Therefore, this is what YHWH God Almighty, the God of Israel, says: 'Listen! I am going to bring on Judah and on everyone living in Jerusalem every disaster I pronounced against them. I spoke to them, but they did not listen; I called to them, but they did not answer.' "
18 Then Jeremiah said to the family of the Recabites, "This is what Almighty YHWH, the God of Israel, says: 'You have obeyed the command of your forefather Jonadab and have followed all his instructions and have done everything he ordered.'
19 Therefore, this is what the Almighty YHWH, the God of Israel, says: 'Jonadab son of Recab will never fail to have a man to serve me.' "

Why these sons obeyed their ancestor? The promise of the father was living for long period of time in a place if they obey him. Living a long time in a place instead of moving here and there as nomads was considered as good for the father and the descendants, then to obey the rule makes the rule as something good as well. At the end, the rule of the father became something real when YHWH himself asserted that always will be a member of this family serving him... this is to say, the name of this family will last until the end of the era.

So, the analogy father-son still stands for you to find the answer to your question.

 

How can obediance be good if the father is an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)? This idea of unquestioning obedience is better suited to the 19th century. We modern folk would prefer our kids - at the right time - think these things through. How else can we hope to break cycles of inherited "bad"?

And would you mind very much, telling me how you arrived at the conclusion that your god is good?

 

Yes, and then he created a 8.3 magnitude earthquake below the ocean floor causing 110 tidal wave that wiped-out an entire tropical island population because..."he loves everyone"

gawd is a myth or a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) bag not worthy of worship, if real.

 

Just because you don't understand how the universe works doesn't mean God does not exist or is evil. Try again.

 

You seem to be quite skeptical as to the goodness of God. Do you not understand reality?

 

Evidently you're still laboring under the impression that I'm an idiot.

 

Hebrews Ch 11 and 12 is the best way, IMO, to answer your question. It is our faith that tells us God is good.

Faith is an interpersonal dexision that cannot be explained, determined, or analyzed. And we all live by faith through one form or antoher in our lives for we cannot prove that we will see the next minute, hour, or day. We can predict that we can, but prediciton is not proof of determination.

 

there is fre will to make your won decision. god wants all to come to him but also knows that not all will. He lets you choose, not Him choosing for you.

 

So, you consider it "Free Will" when the choice is to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity??? If god knows all and knows the outcome (future) how is it free will?

 

I am not talking about that. I am talking of once you become a Christian. Does freewill exist there or is the Christian bound by the dictates of God?