An Attempt at a Cuban Spring?

Today, White House press secretary admits that on Obama's watch 2009-2012 a U.S. agency was behind a Twitter effort to foment unrest in the tiny island nation.

Well way to go Obama! Here you are talking about reaching out and learning how to get along with one another and with other countries and here you are secretly giving the go ahead for a nasty little Twitter generated war against Cuba. I didn't think you had it in you to do that while your average supporter is wont to talk about knuckle dragging conservatives who still want to keep hassling the Cuban government. So not only have you messed with the Cubans but you messed with your own supporters. Nice!

So . . . was this actually an Obama administration attempt to foment a Cuban Spring . . . regardless of the potential cost in human lives?

Ah, but then if you read all the article you discover that the weird effort by the U.S. never went anywhere during all those years and almost never strayed from the subject matter of . . . sports and weather. Huh? I'm guessing the boss was so busy golfing and going on vacations that he never remembered to give them the go-ahead to actually start fomenting unrest. Hahahahahaha!

 

Good for him. That is what they should be doing. Then lets open to trade with them. Isolation doesn't work, lets give the Cuban people a taste of prosperity and see if they throw off their shackles to get more of it.

 

Oh I agree. I was actually excited when I began reading it . . . only to discover that in the crunch Obama blew it, as per usual. The man could screw up a wet dream, I swear!

Anyway it's worth an eye roll and a giggle or two but on the other hand here's a different article source on the same thing . . . and they paint a bit more of an ominous picture of the program:

Meh . . . but who are you going to believe?

 

They haven't botched it totally. A new Cuban version of Facebook is gaining popularity there and is expected to organize the kind of freedom movements we saw in the Arab spring.

I agree though better it happen later under someone else's watch. Obama doesn't understand the dangers of political vacuums. I think he has this crazy idea that hippies will take power instead of armed organized groups. In Cuba at least it is isolated from long standing militiant socialists like the Muslim brotherhood. Castro didnt allow for diversity of political parties so maybe they have a chance of filling the vacuum themselves, but we will see.

Trade is what will kill communism though. People get fed up with having to ask permission from someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

 

Oh I agree. It remains a wait and see situation.

 

There is hope in Venezuela this week too. The people are standing up to the new regime now that threat of Chavez is gone. Vice documentaries had some videos on it on youtube. Would be nice to see that country saved from the disaster it is heading towards.

If Cuba liberates their economy from the leftists I will be sending as much as I can save down there. The boom in growth is going to be astronomical. It is a shame that the commies here on PF living in prosperous capitalist countries can't see that having to ask permission to make a living leads to trouble.

 

The "people" are limited to the elite sector who used to collect much of the oil profits before Chavez was elected:

[video=youtube_share;eqKMLXy7g9I]http://youtu.be/eqKMLXy7g9I[/video]

 

People living in Caracas are too busy dying in the lawlessness created there to notice anything.

Surely you don't support the socialists that have killed that countries economy and exposed them to massive corruption and oppression of political dissent? Or are you a democrat? The government there even caused a toilet paper shortage. When you have to wipe yourself on the grass you rethink lefterism.

 

You're why the empire has been able to exist for so long. Why does this thread get so much attention but this one gets very little?:

Thread: Bipartisan Senate Bill Seeks More Support For Venezuelan Opposition

 

Opening trade doesn't require support for insurgency.

 

Trade will naturally cause it. Communism and socialism are terrible systems to live under and people can't bear them too long unless they have relative prosperity. Cuba does not. There people will begin to act like capitalists because that is natural, and subversion will be had without spies etc... Plus we both get to make money. Win win.

 

You probably don't even know what socialism is. Correct me if I'm wrong by describing it please. The Soviet Union associated itself with socialism to try to gain favor with the egalitarian segments of societies and the United States associated it with the Soviet Union to help further it's corporate and power interests abroad.

 

Government control of the economy. Lets hear your definition.

 

I'll do one better. Here's the definition of socialism provided by the Salvadoran guerrillas (FMLN):

Which is one of the reasons:

Furthermore, as the State Department commissioned Jacobson Report pointed out:

And reported on in the press:

A "war against communism" it was not. It was a war against the poor. Period. Socialism is the democratization of the workplace. It is when the means of production are controlled by the workers instead of some corporate executive flying around in a private jet on the backs of his or her wage slaves.

 

I actually just looked this up.. I couldn't find Caracas, but Venezuela as a country has a murder rate of about 45 per 100k.. That is shocking!! As comparison, South Africa is 30. Obviously I'm sure certain cities it's way higher because that's just national averages. That is definitely a valid grievance and probably worse than the toilet roll situation. I hope they can sort that out in the most peaceful way possible; they have a gang problem that seems even bigger than the USA's.

 

...which is why funding insurgencies is the wrong approach.

 

The Obama regime is mulling proposals that would extend I-95 from it's southernmost tip to downtown Havana via a Florida straits causeway.

Go for it!

 

The Cubans had a taste of our prosperity. They didn't like it and that's how we got Fidel. 1958 I believe it was. They also wanted statehood at one point, but WE didn't like it. Too many poor blacks for our sensibilities.

 

Try it in North Korea!

 

I disagree a little. In some cases external powers like Russia complicate the issue. Grenada for example.

But otherwise I agree. Trade is gradual enough too to allow institutions to develop that can fill the power vacuum when the regime does collapse. That is what will happen in china I think. The communist party will leave Uneventfully, and established groups will fill the gap as they go.

 

I'd argue that China is proof that trade/capitalism doesn't necessarily lead to democracy.

There's little reason to believe that the Communist Party is leaving China anytime soon, since political freedoms are scarce there.

Cuba seems more like fertile ground for developing a freer country via prosperity, since Castro's regime is less oppressive in many respects.

In China, you only really have political freedoms in Hong Kong and perhaps Macau.

 

China will move gradually I think. Stability is more important to them then prosperity in many ways so it will take longer. I am an eternal optimist in foreign affairs though.

Not sure if Castro is less oppressive. Just probably less coordinated.

 

What cracks me up is the people in this country (USA) who get all in a tizzy because the CIA is doing its job rather effectively against communist Cuba-----but who rush to defend communists who have been attempting the same thing here----for well over 50 years.

Well done, lads and lasses !!

 

I'm no fan of Castro but claiming they "had a taste of prosperity" under Batista is outrageous. The Cuban revolution was supported by the masses for a reason. Unfortunately, Castro didn't deliver on the reforms he promised. He actually started out pretty moderate and then he aligned himself with the Communist-bloc after the Bay of Pigs.

 

It's kind of amusing though, to see so many believing that the Obama team is trying to foment a coup because their hearts bleed for the Cuban people, not withstanding the decades of US terror and economic strangulation of their country.