Who do you consider white? Is white a valid race?

White is a valid classification. Mod Edit ~ Don't make it personal. Focus on the thread.

 

yes, we are genetic brothers.

but many Ashkenazi are white while many Sephardim are not.

 

True sefaradim (spanish and portugese) are always 'white', because iberia is european, that is if one were to say those living in europe are 'white'.

Did you see the above genetic plot? They literally cluster on top of ashkenazi. They are identical populations which would make them either both white or not white.

 

This is irrelevant, and also makes no sense. Thanks for constantly going on about Jews in a thread about whether White is a valid taxonomy, which I demonstrated. One wonders whether you only come here to spew pro Jewish irrelevant bias onto every thread. Thanks tho.

 

lol!!!!! Many Sephardim moved to countries filled with non-white Jews and mixed with these non-white Jews.

maybe 600 years ago it was fair to say all Sephardim were white, but not anymore.

 

I didn't post that mike.

 

you agree that not all Sephardim are white, correct?

 

This is nonsense. Mod Edit ~ Don't make it personal

 

I'm talking about turkish sephardim (they were hardly any 'turkish' jews to marry) and moroccan sefaradim. Moroccans also cluster right on top of ashkenazi and when not on top, next to. Most of them also look the same.

I have posted a lot of non-white ashkenazi jews as well. If you go by skin color and hair color (and genes), they are identical to sefaradim. These are just religious rites anyway. We are also forgetting the italkim who follow the italian rite. On their paternal side they are identical to ashkenazi jews.

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Uh, how is it nonsense? Spain is in europe. And the genetic plot you posted shows that AJ and SJ (including MJ) cluster right next to and literally on top of each other.

 

do you agree that someone is not white, if they don't look white?

 

Yeah, I guess, if you mean someone from the afghan taliban, I don't think they look white. Bin Laden wasn't white. Sefaradim like emma lazarus and judah benjamin definately look white though, much white than franz kafka and his sisters who were ashkenazim.

Still, I don't think olive skin makes one not white. But I really don't care about that. I more care about the stereotype in america that the ashkenazi jews are whiter than sefaradic jews, its just not true. They literally cluster identical on genetic plots and look exactly the same.

Eugene Levy (ashkenazi) literally looks mizrahi from a kurdish synagogue.



Compare to sefaradi tahor Judah Benjamin (definitely white because he was the brains behind the confederacy)



The first american jews like plantation owners and slave traders were sefaradi jews

 

Sefaradi benjamin cardozo was also definitely white



Ben stein on the other hand looks identical to middle eastern jews, specifically ones from syria. No surprise since their genes are virtually identical.

 

I do not however see this sefaradi moroccan man as non-white. Certainly looks identical to many ashkenazi jews and his genes are identical.

View attachment 27782

Brad Garret (ashkenazi) is darker and looks yemenite.

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every person is different.

some Sephardim have mostly Europeam genes so they are white.

other Sephardim are mostly North African genes so they are NOT white.

no two people are the same.

understand???????????????

 

Actually most sefaradim don't have much european or north africa genes, most are israelites because they cluster with ashkenazi jews. They are middle eastern in origin. Spain isn't really the place to pick up light skin either. Only berber jews (a small minority) are converts with north african genese, and many berbers are light skinned and look white.

I don't know why you are attacking me all the time. I post pics and genetic studies to back up my claims and it doesn't matter.

And white skinned moroccans def. look middle eastern. Plently of middle eastern people have white skin. Its not due to euro admixture. Look at bashar assad, president of syria.

 

with all due respect, posting tiny pictures of men with dark skin, dark hair, dark eyes doesn't help your argument that "ALL Sephardim are white people".

try posting pictures of Sephardim with blue eyes, light skin, and straight hair, and you may have a point.

 

I have already posted many sefaradic jews with blue eyes and white skin, and many ashkenazi jews with brown skin and black hair, but here is another sefaradi moroccan with blue eyes and white skin.



And to say his white skin and blue eyes are due to admixture with european is absurd (where, spanish? portuguese?). Syrians and Iraqi Kurds, have white skin and blue eyes, they have have zero euro admixture.

Here is another sefaradi moroccan.



How these guys are 'not white' I will never understand. And the pictures I posted of Judah Benjamin aren't 'tiny'. He was a southern confederate, of course he was white. The confederacy said so, not me. The sefaradim were slave traders from morocco, spain and portugal. They were white people.

And 'straight hair' doesn't make one white. If it did, then half the indian and saudi population would be white

 

Perhaps you're not familiar with African-American ambiguities? Terms like "black", "red bone", "yellow", and "high yellow" are still used. A persons appearance isn't the best way to determine "race", if by "race" you're speaking of "skin color" or observable physical characteristics. DNA is the best way to organize humans into ethnic groups, but even DNA doesn't necessarily establish "race". There's a tribe in southern Africa, members of which appear to be black, sub-Saharan Africans. The tribe, however, has historically claimed to be Hebrew, and practiced a form of Judaism. When DNA testing was performed on male tribe members, the result was interesting. The DNA was traceable to an ancient genetic line..... a Jewish Rabbinical line.

For the above reasons, as well as many other reasons, "race" is not and should not be simply a matter of skin color or observable physical characteristics. What you see is not always what you get. Our President is a good example. Whenever the subject of "reparations for slavery" raises it's ugly head, I offer one suggestion to our President. "Let your white half pay your black half, Mr President, and let's get on to more important matters"!

 

the pictures are too small to make an educated guess as to whether or not they are white.

however, you need to accept that many Sephardic Jews and most Mizrahi Jews are not white.

are you ok with that?

 

You click on the pictures and they enlarge to a huge size. Many ashkenazi jews are not white either if the standard is to have dark skin and hair.

 

2 more Moroccan Jews, both white, and famous too.

View attachment 27789

View attachment 27790

Palestinian sefaradic jews. White skin, blue eyes.

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ok, what's your point?

I already told you that some Sephardic Jews are white, but many are not.

what do you care if some of them are not white?

 

Tunisian sefaradi jew, again white with blue eyes.



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My point is that if sefaradi jews are not white then neither are many ashkenazi jews. They are just religious denominations passed down by the father, they have nothing to do with color or race. Both denominations originated in southern europe. It would be like saying most methodist christians and lutheran christians aren't white, but presbyterian christians are white.

This ashkenazi jew is not white (by popular definition). See, ashkenazim doesn't mean white, its just a religious right, like italkim.

View attachment 27793

These ashkenazi jews are not white either by common definition.



View attachment 27796

Compare to sefaradi girl



Exact same genotype and phenotype. Just different religious practices and customs.

 

the so-called "white" Sephardi Jews you are posting are not as white as the white Ashkenazi Jews.

your Sephardi Jews look like southern Italians, Greeks, Kosovors, western Turks.......not your traditional white people.

 

How on earth can these people be called "the white Ashkenazi Jews". They are darker than the sefaradim I posted. Both groups come from europe

Ashkenazi Jew
View attachment 27801


Ashkenazi Jews are not traditionally white either by that definition.

Ashkenazi (he is way darker than the sefaradic jews I posted, he even has brown eyes as opposed to the tunisian sefaradi with blue eyes).



Another ashkenazi (looks same as mizrahi women)




Another ashkenazi, obviously no 'whiter' than a sefaradi jew, or a greek, or an italian.



Also the idea that italians and greeks and people from the balkans are not white is new. I'm part greek, we are typically olive skinned, but definitely white. Its not just me, the greek community is european and are white/caucasian according to the us census. The only people who consider greeks or italians non-white or people of color is stormfront.