Slavery is still very much legal and utilized in America, should it be?

Biased poll is biased.

 

Looks to me like the Democrats are importing immigrants to make slave out of them.

 

Reading through the thread, at first I thought the guy came off as a kook(and referencing Wikipedia didn't do any favors). But as I read on with more facts. it's clear that refusal to work in prisons results in cruel and unusual punishments, in violation of the U.S Constitution. For instance, only the Courts can sentence the charged and it's only the Courts who should have the ability to extend(or shorten) time.

And anyone defending those wages are NUTS. Would you accept that on the open market? SNAP is more useful. Freaking SNAP! Some Liberals want the min wage at $10 an hour. Well, if we want $10 an hour then inmates should be making $5 an hour.

Consequences should be there for criminals but this is very much indentured slavery. The fact that it goes overseas is adding insult to injury.

 

Actually unless you have spent time in prison as either a guard or a prisoner how would you know what the conditions are like in prison?

 

Good grief.. what an utterly idiotic notion.

 

Oh sorry I meant to say make voter out of them........my bad.

 

Who's to say I haven't? You can tell through documentaries, reports, its not a secret. You can read about what conditions prisons are required to maintain. As I said earlier, they are not luxury resorts. They are places of punishment but even our places of punishment are more comfortable than most.

 

Capitalism actually occurred with the first record of private property rights, during William Bradford in the late 17th hundreds.

But for the sake of your bad argument and poorly done research, lets say that Capitalism occurred during the early forms of the middle ages. Slavery has still existed for much longer. It's been around for since the Before Christ Epoch... Ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, China, India, just to name a few.

Know your history.

 

I never said Capitalism created slavery I was saying Capitalism leads to slavery, there is a big difference. That is like saying no Spaniard ever owned a slave because slaves existed before Spain, its a ridiculous argument you are making.
Also did you forget the original argument you tried making?

You specifically said capitalism did not exist before or during slavery, now you just said it existed in the late 1700's, a time when slavery was far more rampant than previously in history. Even the year before the Civil war in the mid 1800's there were more slaves in America than ever before, slavery was not dying it was growing and the war against it was entirely necessary. More slaves died being sold and traded like cattle than Americans died fighting against it, it was a good thing we fought that war and I know republicans try to paint Lincoln as a war criminal who should have let the South secede, but that just adds to my proof that the republican party is undeniably a economically exploitative white supremacist party.

 

Do you not see the huge room for corruption with this? Do you think its a coincidence that after slavery ended we started throwing black people in jail in extreme numbers for bogus charges like loitering or smoking weed, two things we should all be free to do? The right wingers cry about "freedom!" all the time and how much they hate the government, but they hate Mexicans and Blacks even more than they hate the government so they have no problem when the government steps in and arrests non-violent individuals for absolutely no good reason than takes away their voting rights and makes them work for the profit of corporations. If the government was doing this to rich white people Republicans would be up in arms about the Tyrannical Obama government arresting more people in the world than any country in the entire world, but since its mostly blacks and mexicans in jail and poor whites rather than wealthy whites, they pass it off like this is a good thing and the government is doing the right thing.

 

It's all evil whitey's fault LoL

 

I would like you to pause your thinking, clear your mind, and read my this post without any bias.

Ready? Ok I'll begin. I will admit that i can see the ability to corrupt...right after the civil war. However time has passed and this is no longer the case. Society may not be completely integrated, but it is integrated enough to wish to see prosperity among each other regardless of color. Loitering and Smoking weed are not bogus crimes, they are just crimes. I'm sure if you looked it up you could be provided with logical explanations behind both. Id next like to point out that if a white man is caught committing any crime, yes a white man, he too will be imprisoned. It is not as one sided as you think anymore. The right wing doesn't hate blacks or Mexicans. They really don't. There are millions of Blacks and Mexicans who are republicans themselves. Wealthy whites get in just as much trouble as poor whites if they catch them. I don't really see where corporations come into this. They don't just trump up charges against random people. There has to be evidence. And you know what, even if they are bogus crimes they are still crimes. People who commit them are choosing to go against the law. That's their fault if they end up in prison.

 

Have you?

There is probably so much on tv you will never see that goes on in prisons.

Sure they are not luxury resorts, but until you have spent any amount of time in one you really don't have a clue as to what they are like.

 

Maybe. I'm not saying i know what a prison is like. I have never entered one, and i don't ever wish to. First hand reports differ in variations. Prison can be bad, prison can be ok. But never have i heard that our prison is even close to being worst. Our prisons are supposed to be bad. And as long as they maintain their human rights code and punish those who need it, I'm fine with it.

 

First of, big kudos to the OP for bringing this up, and I think it's a really worthy topic.
I think the practice of any form of punishment is a waste of time and wrong, and to turn citizens into slaves as a form of "punishment" should be quite unacceptable. Our prison systems has become a raging capitalistic industry that is out of control thanks to the "privatization" factor, and that combined with an already folly public view of human life has created a monster we are going to have to deal with at some point in time.

I think amending the constitution to solve this would be a waste of time because the prisons are run on a state level and how they treat the prisoners varies from state to state, so unless you want complete Federal control of all prisons, another amendment would do nothing more.
The problem resides in public attitude about criminals, people seem to think taking away ones freedom is an acceptable form of "punishment", so as long as our government, state or Federal, is in the business of dishing out "punishment", and people support that, you can't really change anything.

My personal view is that the whole concept of "punishment" should be removed from the system and replaced with the objective of keeping the public safe from dangerous and criminal behavior. Taking someone out of the general population should not be a matter of trying to make them pay for a crime, but to remove their threat from society. Punishment is the act of taking revenge or retribution for some perceived wrong, which is in it's self a form of emotional reaction, currently not allowed by individuals who were the victims, but conducted by an automated system tainted by bias operators. It's a total sham, it's ineffective, it's hypocritical, and it needs to be changed.

Look at it this way, you have 2 different kids, they both do something wrong, so you send them both to their room as a punishment. It does not impact them equally, one is very upset and agonized over it, but the other one just finds ways to kill the time and relax. What is "punishment" to 1 person is not always the same for everyone else. A person who has no fear of death cannot be punished by being put to death. This is the great folly of the whole concept, and until we recognize we are not Gods, we cannot dish out equal or appropriate punishment to people as such, we are doing little more than pretending we control things we do not. What we can control is identifying and removing dangerous factors from our environments, including people.

All said and done, the act of using criminals as a way to make profit is totally corrupt and wrong.

 

Punishment isn't just about punishing however. Lets take that two kids argument and use it in a different view. Two kids do something wrong. One gets punished and the other doesn't. The kid who was punished will more likely link the negative punishment to his actions and will come to the conclusion subconsciously or consciously that his actions were negative and the path to avoiding negative punishment is to avoid his negative actions. The child who is not punished however makes no such mental connection and is therefore unlikely to realize his actions are wrong and or is still willing to commit them.

 

Slavery still exists in sub-Saharan states.

People love that word "slavery" to aggrandize the righteousness.

 

"Even if they are bogus crimes they are still crimes. People who commit them are choosing to go against the law. That's their fault if they end up in prison." So if they made having sex with Women a crime, you would simply stop having sex with Women and just obey the law? What a utterly ridiculous notion.

As for wealthy people getting the same charges as the poor, you cant honestly believe that basic logic will tell you otherwise. You admit that most the time hiring a very good expensive lawyer is better than having one appointed to you for free, right? If so, than you concede the wealthy have a much greater advantage in court than the poor for the simple fact they have much more expendable resources to pay for their defense. That is simple irrefutable logic. Also, have you ever heard of Alffuenza? Its where rich people are so rich they dont understand the consequences of their actions thus receiving far lighter sentences from the judge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9KUT0dKHbI It actually works.

Now, lets look at the minority part of this. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/
Look at the charts, we smoke weed at roughly the same rate, whites smokes a little bit more on average (im smoking right now and im white). The problem arises when you look at the arrest rates, more whites smoke weed than blacks but blacks are arrested at literally twice the rate as whites for weed, even in liberal cities, its blatantly obvious our justice system is still racist for the most part. "Approximately 12%-13% of the American population is African-American, but they make up 40% of the almost 2.1 million male inmates in jail or prison (U.S. Department of Justice, 2009)." "The leading cause of incarceration of an African American male is a non-violent drug offense. www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/64"

You admit that after the Civil War we started arresting black people for no good reason and had them work for corporations, well thats a start at least most right wingers wont even admit that they act like the white man can do no harm and is perfectly benevolent, a lot of the time they would arrest them for completely non-violent crimes that cant even really be proved in court they just use the cop as an eye witness for conviction, one of those bogus non-violent crimes was loitering. I just watched a brand new documentary on Vice News and I can show you cops driving around mostly black neighborhoods telling random people they cant walk on this street, they cant stand on this corner, if you do im taking you to jail for loitering. This is exactly what happened after the Civil war and its still very much going on.

 

I do think the federal government should control all prisons, also the state but not corporations. As far as im concerned, the States have to follow our amendments they dont get to pick and choose which ones they will follow, so if we add this amendment than we can certainly stop this abhorrent practice once and for all while the right wingers kick and scream because we are taking their "property" away, which just so happens to be entirely non-violent human beings.

 

I understand that conditions are also poor in other nations, but that doesn't excuse the fact that the U.S. is the prison capital of the world in the way that it incarcerates a higher percent of its population than any other country. It is widely recognized among other first-world nations (understand that I am comparing us to other nations on the same playing field as the U.S.; you could compare poverty and crime statistics of the U.S. to that of Afghanistan and use it as evidence that we are nearly perfect in those areas, which is far from the truth. Comparing ourselves to Canada or Norway would get you far better statistics.) that the U.S. prison system is a failure and replicating those policies is unwise.

 

Why are you questioning the prison system? How about you question the culture. There are plenty of countries that have anti drug laws that don't have as high of rates of arrest or use. Maybe instead of blaming the police you should blame the people. As I said many of the laws may be bogus but they are still against the law. Now shall we get back to the real topic? Discussing if it is right to have prisoners be slaves of the state.

 

Are those who labor so that the leisure class called welfare recipients can continue to reproduce considered slaves in this bizarre world? Is requiring people to work to offset the cost of their food, lodging, medical care, legal representation, clothing, cable television, and health club considered slavery in this bizarre world? Is requiring a man to support children he never wished to have considered slavery in this bizarre world?

 

I never implied that you said it.

No, it's not like saying the same thing.... Implying that capitalism leads to slavery is fallacious because slavery has existed long before a system of capitalism.

Your comparison is not relatable in the slightest. It's a really dumb analogy to make on your part.

Regardless of what I said, during or before, it still doesn't prove your point that capitalism leads to slavery. Slavery has lasted for generations. Capitalism, not so much. You've posted an ad hoc fallacy and you're clearly not smart enough to understand how you've done it.

Why don't you save the political nonsense for someone who cares.

 

You are literally saying that Capitalism cant possibly lead to slavery because slavery existed before Capitalism, are you honestly that ignorant? Im sure you hate Islam so lets use that as an analogy, that would be like saying Islam does not lead to the oppression of women because women have been being oppressed before Islam therefore it cant possibly be Islams fault. The fact is yes the oppression of women existed much longer before Islam, but Islam LEADS to the oppression of women just like Capitalism LEADS to slavery, I never once said capitalism invented slavery and im not saying Islam invented the oppression of women, im saying the two systems utilize this and that is irrefutable.

"Slavery has lasted for generations. Capitalism, not so much." Just replaces "Slavery" with "oppression of women" and replace "Capitalism" with "Islam" and you will see my analogy makes perfect sense. "The oppression of women has lasted for generations. Islam, not so much."

Honestly all you have to do is look at this thread for proof, I am a socialist and I say end slavery even in prison and so did another socialist if you look at the votes, yet it is the hardcore right wing capitalists such as yourself and Magnaanime Rex who are literally supporting slavery under the guise of "justice", which is an utterly absurd notion. Slavery can never be justified, but leave it up to the right wing to try the same way they did in the past.


"Why don't you save the political nonsense for someone who cares." So people being traded like cattle and hundreds of thousands of people dying to stop it is just "political nonsense" ey? Oh the right wing is just so adorable.

 

Only if you're really dumb enough to believe Islam is greatly correlated to women oppression does your analogy make sense. As I have said before, you're really not smart enough to understand the ad hoc fallacies you are creating.

Um, no. You're just showing how your own analogy doesn't make any sense (Again). If women oppression has occurred longer than Islam has existed as a religion, then how can you possibly correlate the two? If that is the case, then the correlation is 0 or if I were to actually calculate the correlation -1.56 if you compare the existence of both variables.

That would be like correlating AIDS/HIVS to Africans, which I'm sure you probably think I hate too. Africans have been around for a very long time, and yet, AIDS/HIV has only been around for 2 centuries. That would make the correlation between Africans and AIDS/HIV also very low.

I know you are probably hoping whatever assumptions you have of me to support your pathetic arguments would be correct, but you should really stop banking on your own stupidity to support your assertions.

I really don't care what you or some other idiot believes about slavery, to be honest.

Here is some advice: If I don't reference a political party or politician, then keep your opinions about said party or politician to yourself, because I am uninterested.