The Senate report reveals cruelty and dishonesty

Please don't quote me out of context. I said that US meddling in the Mid-East started big-time with the overthrow of the Mid-East's only democratically elected government in a Muslim country, continued with US support of the Israeli disenfranchisement of native Palestinians, and that if the US would simply take its advisors, drones, attack planes and helicopters, and other carrots and sticks and go home, as Ron Paul has advised, that Mid-Easterners, like the Vietnamese, would probably be very happy just to forget all about the US invasion, occupation, and previous support of repressive regimes.

Okay, Borat, your turn to twist my words all around.

 

Hmm, I don't think so but let me rephrase:


Your first claim was that terrorists attack the US because American is bombing the Middle East - that was proven false due to chronological reasons


You second claim - terrorists attack the US because they don't like US policies in the region - that's probably true but it's politically very weak argument. The US policies can and should be debated but on merits, not on whether these policies are approved by the likes of Osama bin Laden

 

And what is your claim, Borat? That the US and Israel have been consistently fighting for freedom, justice, and democracy for working-class Arabs and Persians?

 

Claim 1 - terrorism is inexcusible and they attacked the US first
Claim 2 - disagreement with a country's foreign policy in no way shape or form justifies terrorism
Claim 3 - terror threats are not good enough reason to accomodate terrorists and change policies, it's good enough reason to hunt them down and exterminate terrorists mercilessly

That being said, the US and Israel are not in business to fight for freedom, justice and democracy of the Arab street while the Arab street fights for Sharia law, theocracy and elimination of Israel. When working class Arabs and Persians stand up for their rights the US and Israel and the rest of the Western world will be jumping over each other to help.

 

Really Borat, you should be banned from posting sheer idiocies here. What a load of nonsense that was. Like they helped Iraq, Egypt or Libya? As long as the USA is actively supporting medieval savages in Saudi Arabia there will be no peace in that part of the world. The terrorism will continue flourishing across the globe. The USA is directly responsible for all those Jihadi extremists. It started in Afghanistan, continued in Pakistan, moved to Chechnya, spread to Libya, from Libya to Syria and Iraq etc...etc...They are everywhere now due to stupid U.S foreign policies.

Let's not forget what's the topic of this particular thread. The U.S torture methods and failed attempt to cover it up.


Then Why Torture?

https://consortiumnews.com/2014/12/11/whats-the-next-step-to-stop-torture/

 

I don't understand why people get so worked up about splashing a little water on terrorists faces. There are terrorists after all, it's not like they're real human beings!

 

About the tortures used by US government in Iraq and in secret jails scattered in other countries, we can easily find more interesting information then in RT or Al Jazeera. The very fact of publication of that torture report is a positive phenomenon, showing that American democracy is still functioning. Do you remember Watergate? At that time, our media used the downfall of Nixon as a proof that our democracy worked and it was watched by the world. Now, we witness interesting political scandal of global proportions, unfolding in America; the world is watching. Of course, "the glorious nation of Kazakhstan" cannot properly evaluate political events in USA. We are in fever now, watch protests against police brutality ongoing in Washington. We certainly nee to do a great overhaul of the system to save our democracy.

 

It really is quite extraordinary that otherwise ostensibly intelligent people cannot connect the dots from those events in Iran in 1953 to today's Islamic fundamentalism. Sometimes blowback is a long time coming and it takes a special kind of stupid to ignore the past and consider attacks on the west as one-sided belligerence. We can blame the CIA for Iran/Mossadegh too-yet another of their serial (*)(*)(*)(*)-ups.

 

It amazes me that people who "connect dots" do so after they place the dots there to begin with.

 

Any physical or mental pain or suffering "other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions" is torture. For example handcuffing a prisoner during transportation to prevent escape is "lawfully sanctioned" that may cause minor pain or suffering. Hanging a person in a prison cell from their arms and them beating their legs so that they can't support themselves and leaving them hanging from their arms for days on end is outright torture.

Anytime that pain and suffering is intentionally caused it is not "incidental" and therefor it is torture. All of the EIT were intentional forms of inflicting pain and suffering and all of the techniques were therefore by definition torture.

There is no question related to the law and it is not a subjective decision. If it is intentionally caused pain and suffering then it is torture.

 

Many of the most ignorant are defending the acts of torture and deception but haven't read the actual report. Yes, it will take a couple of hours to become informed but these arguments against torture by the CIA will be quickly overcome by anyone that takes the time to actually read the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing report.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/1...rt-the-full-text-of-the-senate-investigation/

 

I was briefly tortured, and it made me a slightly disabled veteran. This is my impression. Water boarding is psychological rather than physical torture. It is not intended to create lasting physical injuries. WW!! Japanese and our Spanish-American war water boarding in the Phillipines was much worse.

The report didn't tell us what we didn't already know. I don't believe CIA agents or others on the other side were interviewed nor was it noted that our real and near torture provided some information. Even now, we send prisoners to other countries to do our dirty work, and we are killing jihadists and incidently innocent civilians with our drones. Some of the outraged in Congress alreadyk new what we were doing, because they got regular reports at the time. Their outrage seems selective to me.

We were taught that the Geneva Conventions applied only to uniformed combatants of recognized countries. Our Jihadist enemies don't fit the category of uniformed combatants. We need more negotiations to reflect the new reality.

 

Now, we are watching a real test of American democracy. Senator McCain had a personal experience and valued the Geneva Convention. He is fighting on the right side at this time. This is what is really needed "to support our troops", more then just ribbons on our cars. Read here: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cia’s-tactics-were-torture-mccain-says/ar-BBgNEyA

 

Combatants are captured and detained in order to prevent them from engaging in combat. NOT in anticipation of a day in court and the judicial process. In wars past, millions have been detained without ever being charged with any crime. Conviction for a crime isn't the goal.

 

when they are on the torture table they will be wishing they had opposed it. Live by the sword die by it.

 

I have no problem with detaining them, just with the method of that detention and the techniques used in interrogating them.

So, if they are combatants and America is fighting a war against them, then they are POWs. In which case the Geneva convention and International law against torture applies.

But no, some suspect legalistic legerdemain calling them "enemy combatants" and "poof" out goes all legal protections both from domestic and international law.

 

The funny thing is every United States citizen is considered an enemy. Just look at the trading with the enemy act. It says anyone subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and thereof. The 14th amendment makes all US citizens subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. The point is as an enemy you are also subject to this torture.

 

POW status in International law carries several requirements, most of which the likes of Al Qaeda and theTaliban dont meet. And again, pouring water on ones face doesnt cause "severe pain"

 

Silly fool logic.

 

Lol the only thing silly is the that you are a slave and you think you are free. Look at the document. What I said is a fact. You are a slave! That is a fact. You are an enemy of the United States government, that is a fact. The only silly logic I see is yours.

 

"...whether physical or mental" Funny how you keep leaving that last bit out. Anyway, when was the last time you were waterboarded? You seem very familiar with the practise and its physical effects.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2340

 

You are delusional. You cant master comprehension of the English language so you propably shouldnt attempt to interpret the meaning of our constitution.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction......"

 

(1)(a) That with reference to Article 1, the United States understands that,
in order to constitute torture, an act must be specifically intended to inflict
severe physical or mental pain or suffering and that mental pain or suffering
refers to prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from: (1) the intentional
infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering

 

Yup that quote right there makes you a slave. Instead of reading for your self you call me names. Lol that is classic brainwashed response. Look to see the legal definition of subject. The verb definition since it's an action. Then when you get done with that do the same for jurisdiction. Remember you pledged allegiance to this jurisdiction. As did I.

 

Apparently you are unfamiliar with severe psychological pain.

Ever felt the panic of the drowning reflex?

http://waterboarding.org/info