Hamas executed Palestinians during Israel war: Amnesty**MOD WARNING**

Link us to the real video then. I've looked and can't find anything that backs your assertions. And, I think you're mistaking a mast for a second rope.

The only videos I can find are all a bit grainy due to the distance involved. There is an al jazeera video but it backs up the video posted above.

And, of course, the official UN report backs up this video as well.

 

It is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY

It is at the 41:40 mark where both ropes have soldiers climbing down.During this period in the video both ropes show total of 7 soldiers coming down

 

It's hard for me to count seven soldiers but that sounds accurate. I agree it looks as if there is a second rope. I don't hear any gunshots right away, though, which also backs the official report. It's too bad no one up top was filming.

 

are you going to post anything to back up your anti Israel fiction?... so far you have found no problem with the animal savagery of the attackers aka "peacenick muslims"... the brutality here is over the top actually.. its vile ..and to repeat, they had already boarded the other vessels with NO INCIDENT.. is that fact just not relevent to you?

 

So you're saying that Israel has to accept an Arab majority? Why are the Jews the only people not entitled to "self-determination"?

 

I have a radical suggestion. How about the Arabs accept the current boundaries. The residents of the West Bank settlement blocks would be allowed safe passage to and from Israel. The new independent entity recognizes Israel as a Jewish state and drops quixotic demands such as "right of return." And in return Israel allows Gaza's seaport to open and aids in constructing a desalinization plant.

Maybe as a model for peace use the U.S. and Canada. And since Gaza is mostly surrounded by Israel, except for a few miles of desert on which it borders Egypt, it wouldn't need a military. Ditto the West Bank. What's wrong with that kind of real peace?

 

Exactly. You don't want any Jewish Israel.

Another example of your desire to exterminate a Jewish Israel.

 

No, its from the rockets that can actually kill or maim, you dont "speculate" when you got children.

 

What is wrong is that this suggestion gives the Palestinians virtually nothing; and why should the Palestinians not have a military when Israel does? Furthermore Palestine will never agree to the presence of Jewish 'settlements' and their continued expansion into the Occupied Territories. If Jews are allowed to return to Israel why should Palestinians be denied the same? I think we know the answer to that.

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This is possibly your most stupid post to date. Try addressing my comments instead of assuming you can read my mind.

 

Er, yes I have - the video! You know, the video that shows the first helicopter approaching the boat, dropping ropes and then dropping troops via two ropes. So where are the IDF videos showing the whole event and including the videos of the first of the three landings? What are the IDF hiding?

Why haven't the IDF returned the confiscated videos and cameras? There were so many cameras and video on board. It is a shame for the IDF that one video escaped them. That ruined their propaganda.

Isn't it odd that in the video the, quote, "animal savagery of the attackers" are shown to be treating the injured two soldiers with so much respect and care. The only people who died were those already on board, one was shot in the top of the head. It is ironic that these savages were using onions as ammo.

 

No, Israel has to accept that the UN treaty they signed includes the right of return for those displaced during war.

Today, there are even citizens of Israel who are denied their property after having been allowed to return for the reason that they are not Jews. And, yes, some non-Jews have been allowed the right of return.

What you are asking for sounds suspiciously close to the ethnic cleansing that Israel is carrying out in West Bank, by the way. Denying people rights to property based on their religion, ethnicity, etc. is a crime.

And, your crime is AGAINST self-determination. If Israel wants to suggest it is a democracy, it must recognized the rights of ALL its citizens - not just those that share your religion, skin color, ethnicity, or whatever.

 

They are not Israeli citizens..., those that are have full rights, some of them even enforce rights and laws in Israel as Judges, Liberman judge in his party corruption case is called Arafat......check it out yourself.


What UN resolution are you talking about ?

 

The current boundaries were gained through ethnic cleansing.

Israel has no legal right to the gains of crime.

The '67 borders were the last legally directed borders.

Recognizing Israel as an apartheid state is good for nobody. The USA is recognized as the USA. The UK is recognzied as the UK. Palestine is recognized as Palestine.

No, West Bank is bordered on the Jordon, which is certainly not part of Israel.

Israel has been in constant war on Gaza for 8 years now. Even today it blockades Gaza, steals its gas reserves, prevents fishermen from the majority of its waters (and shootig at them even inside the illegally imposed 3 mile limit) and is daily shooting at those who are building roads and farming in Gaza from towers it has built. These are acts of war.

Suggesting Gaza doesn't need a military is absolute nonsense. In fact, it seems imperative that there be troops from some other nation bolstering Gaza and ensuring its rights to its land, its waters, its commerce and its right of travel against the constant war from Israel.

It would be a good starting point for Israel to fulfill the commitments made in the ceasefire agreement - which Netanyahu ignores. Does an agreement with Israel mean ANYTHING??

 

What commitments?

 

No, you are wrong about that. Israel determines where non-Jews may live. That has resulted in non-Jews who have returned being denied access to the property they own.

A recent case demonstrates another case of difference in treatment. Israel recently bulldozed homes in Israel without giving warning - picking a day and time that assured the residents would not be home - thus totally destroying the belongings of the residents. The crime? Property owners who were not Jews were denied building permits. So, in need of housing and having the property, they built homes without all the proper permitting.

Even in the harsh false democracy of South Africa blacks had some rights. Pointing at individual cases where non-Jews were treated fairly in Israel is NOT an indication that fairness prevails, obviously.

Read up on the movement by Netanyahu and others to officially give Jews a higher position before the courts - as if it needed to be official!

 

The primary issue is the blockade - which is an act of war.

Negotiations on the blockade were promised.

Since then, Netanyahu has made a few unilateral changes, some in favor of allowing goods to reach Gaza and some oriented to slowing or stopping such goods.

That is not what was promised.

The blockade is an act of war that has been carried out for 8 years and for which there is NOTHING that Gaza can do to cause that to end.

But, the blockade is only one of the ways in which Israel continues to make war on the people of Gaza today.

 

You are talking about the non citizen Palestinians, yes, they were denied return, in 1948 there was a cease fire with Jordan but not peace, why was'nt there peace? why should Israelis agree to hostile Arabs that refuse their right for a state, refuse to be part of it and activly try to destroy it - inside their borders ? property rights? that has been postponed till the Human rights of the Jews will be accepted as well. or not, Israel moved on.

Waht are you talking about ? what "property owners " ?

 

Yes.......it is, we see the official declaration of Hamas to always fight us and never recognize us also as an act of war....., got any news about it ?

OK..., What do you think Hamas has to offer Israel for lifting the siege ? , certianly not peace so why would Israel lift it to an enemy ?

WEhat else do they have to talk about ?

The blockade started in 2007, Hamas declared unrelanted war on Israel since the 90's, Gaza existed long before 2007,


I dunno Will, seems to me there some things they can do, I can even see the progress of the events and I dare to say - let Hamas make a few peacful declarations and it will go a long way. ofc they will be disbanded bu Iran etc' but Iran isnt holding them under siege - so its their desicion.

 

Where the (*)(*)(*)(*) is the outrage at Hamas viciously killing their own citizens, where are the protests, where are the UN resolutions, where are the flag burnings, where are the international reporters,..... Oh.. my bad, Israel did not do this, so it's all right and must be acceptable.

 

You made the comment now back it up with the high court case whose wording stated this. You won't. No case stated the above as you are wellaware.

Knock it off. You are intelligent. Stop allowing you emotions to cause you to utter emotional responses that present false things.

Yes the high court of Israel has criticized certain IDF actions as excessive. Yes the Israeli high court, or to be accurate, Supreme Court has made specific decisions but not the above.

No one has come on this board suggesting the IDF never made a mistake. That attempt to refocus the topic away from what Hamas did is bait and switch. Go start another thread again on pissing on the IDF. This is about Hamas not the IDF.

Now me, I lived in Israel, I volunteered there unlike you. I worked with Israelis and Palestinians. I respect both for the exact same reasons. I am not here to demonize Palestinians any more then I appreciate people coming on this board to demonize all Israelis.

Sure certain things the IDF has done can be criticized. Go ahead but give it a rest distorting what the courts have actually said and do it in an appropriate thread. This is about Hamas and trying to refocus on the IDF does not erase or excuse what Hamas or other Muslim terrorists have done and continue to do and they do so in the name of Allah not Palestine. Hamas is not about Palestine, its about creating a world wide Muslim caliphate. Palestinians are just a means to be exploited to achieve this caliphate. Palestinians are as expendable as Israelis, Jews, anyone else in this holy plan.

Go read the dag nabbed Hamas web site. Its not like they hide their agenda.

Now I say it directly to you if you disarmed terrorist extremists in and on the Gaza and West Bank, do you really think Israelis would not have the ability to regenerate the two state option and ask their government to pull the IDF out of where they are now?You know damn well they would and would be willing to get out of the West Bank back to a safe border.

The extremists in Israel are empowered by Hamas-Hamas deliberately incites them and needs them-without Israeli extremists Hamas could not find fuel to feed its fire. Hamas extremism fuels not just extremist Palestinians but extremist Israelis.

Peaceful Palestinians only fuel peaceful Israelis. That Sir is a fact. I am living testament to that. Come at me with a body bomb I have to shoot you dead. Come at me with an open hand to shake, in peace, I will treat you with utmost respect.

Arabs and Israelis, treat each other with respect contrary to what this forum's arm chair experts state. Certain Israelis and Palestinians can not risk the chance at the moment of shaking hands. That is because of all the external agitators trying to keep them in a state of conflict.

One of those external agitators is Iran, another Turkey. Others are invisible. Obama but not the US is another agitator.

If the US Armed Forces was not being manipulate by Obama's POTUS, it could have played a stabilizing influence. The US was a key player and lost its role because of Obama creating a vacuum now being taken up by China, Russia, Turkey, Iran forcing Saudi Arabia , Jordan and Egypt to change their roles.

Until a change of US Presidency and a new foreign policy to address and undo the pro Muslim Brotherhood agenda of Obama, turmoil continues and Palestine-Israel is just one of thousands of conflict zones across the world being played out during the lack of leadership and vacuum caused by Obama.

 

great post.. thank you

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MOD EDIT - Rule 3 Israel never signed anything that includes the fake "right of return"...

 

What you accuse me of is simply my attempt at redressing the balance which, for decades, has painted Israel as saintly, victimised and beyond criticism, and Palestine as fundamentally evil. I will continue to do so.

 

Where are the videos made by the passengers and confiscated (stolen) by the IDF? Why, if the IDF are so innocent, are they afraid of us seeing the contents? Of course it couldn't be because they are afraid that incriminating evidence might surface, could it? But what am I thinking! Israel has never, ever done anything remotely illegal and the world is involved in gigantic conspiracy to demonise Israel...

 

Oh, really?

I'm pretty sure Israel is a UN member nation.

I think your best argument is that some of those who left weren't under enough serious and immediate danger to qualify, thus justifying Israel's theft of their property and banishment to displaced people's camps for decades - unless they are Jews.

 

You say that at the same time Israel is blocking human rights investigators from entering Gaza, and while Israel is putting international pressure on the Swiss to prevent exposure of human rights abuses by Israeli soldiers, because of the shame it would bring to Israel - according to Tzipi Hotovely.

So, according to Israel, if it might bring shame, it should not be exposed.

Or, maybe you see that as meaning that if it brings shame to Israel it shouldn't be exposed.