Map of the uninsured in the United States

Nope. Under the HMO model, which is, for all practical purposes, the only health insurers left in this country, the insurer contracts with the hospital for a fixed dollar amount per patient day. Since I retired from the business several years ago, I don't know what that is, but my best guess is that hospitals in Phoenix, near my home, are getting about $1,500 per patient day from HMO's. There are almost no Fee for Service insurance arrangement s left in this country.

 

Yes. The defending governor ran on his Medicaid expansion, his opponent attacked him on it, the sitting gov was handily defeated despite a 5/3 spending advantage. Democrats said they were willing to lose political power if that is what it cost to get Obama-care implemented, and they certainly have. Over a 1,000 Democrats have lost office since Obamacare was voted into law, a trend that continued through this week's elections.

 

And you continue with the non-sequiters. Why don't you post all that in some of the threads where that's the actual topic?

 

Yet the ACA (which I support) still does not do the working poor justice as they can still be ineligible for Federal assistance yet make too much for medicaid.

 

Uh, employer based health insurance is Obamacare. All forms of health insurance are governed by the ACA.

 

But that is how insurance works. If you have private, your premiums, along with all other premiums, pay for, read subsidize, for the services provided within the insurance contract. Part is invested, but most is spent. Insurance is the perfect form of socialism.

 

Medicaid is health insurance. It is paid for by tax dollars from the general revenue fund, not from the Medicare taxes from employment. It is designed for the indigent, like yourself. It is insurance since it is a contract where the government self insures the indigent. If you have worked, your income taxes paid into the system for those currently receiving Medicaid benefits. So, my tax dollars, along with everyone else's tax dollars, are paying for your current medical benefits.

That being said, the GOP is wanting to REDUCE and eventually ELIMINATE Medicaid altogether, which will put you in a medical bind where you will have to rely on the charity of others from private donations. Ever read Charles Dickens books that dealt with the poor?

 

Thats what I said

Yes but this is not the 1800s.

 

I suggest you educate yourself on how deductibles work before insurance kicks in and pays their part.

 

Self-insured employer based insurance is not Obamacare, it is under ERISA, do your homework

 

You said "premiums are pure profit."

Regardless of what the deductibles do or don't do, the insurers are required to pay out 80% of PREMIUMS on care.

This does not happen if the deductibles are so large that the premiums are "pure profit."

 

That may be true for HMO's but this has nothing to do with people with no insurance.

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You know nothing about how deductibles work, I have worked in the Medical field for many years so I know what i am talking about.

 

Okay, enlighten me.

 

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/deductible/

 

"That may be true for HMO's but this has nothing to do with people with no insurance."
LynnLynn

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The whole point of my posts is that those costs that uninsureds can not pay in a hospital drive up the cost of health insurance for everyone else.

 

Do people NOT understand that everyone now has insurance?

This thread shouldn't even exist...

You're either paying for insurance or are given FREE insurance that others have to pay for - that or you have opted out and are now being fined...

Insurance is free and tyrannically and in an authoritarian fashion mandatory...

 

Um... so how does that show I have no idea how deductibles work? How does that say anything about the Obamacare 80/20 rule, which requires that insurers spend 80% of their premiums on care?

I'm not talking about the basic aspect of insurance where, after a deductible, many policies include some cost sharing between the insurer and the patient.

I'm talking about this:
https://www.healthcare.gov/health-care-law-protections/rate-review/

Now, please tell me again that I don't understand how deductibles work.

 

I already gave you the link from the same one you gave me. It explains it very clearly.

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No not everyone has insurance and you are a fool if you believe that.

 

Of course everyone has insurance - that was the whole point of Obamacare...

If people don't have insurance its because they don't want it or refuse to accept it for free - or better yet are too lazy to go get it for free..

You people screamed from the top of the mountain about Obamacare (socialized healthcare) and now that you have it you are now attempting it doesn't to play like it doesn't exist?

 

Your link explained very clearly what a deductible was. I already knew that. Please explain how it has anything to do with the 80/20 rule that I linked to.

 

I do not believe it.

Its the very politically biased NY Times (strike 1), so I did some checking.

For their data they used Civis Analytics, a political group based in Chicago, and a big partner in the obama Presidential campaigns. Not a reliable unbiased objective source. Strike 2

For their data they used Enroll America - a group charged with enrolling people into obamacare. Hardly unbiased. Strike 3

3 strikes - you are out


Where I live, the census and govt data are a good match and show in 2013 there were 19% uninsured, and in 2015 there are 18% uninsured. The NYT map shows 18% in 2013, 14% in 2015. Not a match. More proof the NYT article is crap.

 

Interesting. Mind telling me what county that is, and what census and gov't data you're using?

 

No, because it would provide personally identifying information. But check your own county, google " (your county and state) medical uninsured"

 

That doesn't return any useful links for me. You can't give me a county? Maybe not your county, but maybe another county where you see the same problem? I'd like to be able to see the same data you are.

One of the reasons the researchers used their own survey is because there's a significant lag in census data. In fact, the census just got around to publishing detailed 2014 data on health insurance. So whatever number you're using for 2015, it didn't come from the census -- or it's a very preliminary number.

From the linked article:


The data used to make this map are unlike any other data about the number and location of the uninsured. They’re based on a complex model that Enroll and Civis undertook using a large survey conducted in May and tools often used by political campaigns to target likely voters. That strategy allows us to show more detail than is available using more conventional surveys — like these state-level surveys from Gallup — but they also use different assumptions than more conventional polling. The census, which provides the industry gold standard data on the uninsured and where they live, takes a long time to collect and publish data. Last fall, Enroll’s model showed us insurance rates around the country in 2014. The census published 2014 data with a similar level of specificity only this week.


So before you cry "BS", make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

 

While I agree with you about the RESULTS of the race and what they mean in general, I must correct your factual error. The Democratic candidate who lost the governor's race was NOT the current governor, Steve Beshear, who is term-limited. Candidate Jack Conway is the current Kentucky Attorney General.

As a good loyal Democrat he of course approved of Beshear's medicaid expansion and set up of Kentucky's own healthcare exchange and pledged to continue both, whereas his opponent (Matt Bevin, winner of the race) stated his intentions to dismantle the exchange and scale way back on the medicaid expansions.

It was a very interesting race, because as you noted there was a huge spending difference among the candidates and almost all polling outlets had Conway on top by at least 5%. Also note that Bevin only won the May primary by 83 votes statewide over James Comer. 83 votes! You can consider Bevin the tea party candidate and Comer the establishment candidate, and many in the GOP establishment expressed very lukewarm support for Bevin. For him to have won with the margin he did sends a VERY clear message about the mood of the electorate, not only in KY but for future races across the country. Remember, KY was held up as the nationwide model for the ACA exchanges and medicaid expansion.