Guns and race: The different worlds of black and white Americans

“ 'The nation’s consciousness has been raised by the repeated acts of police brutality against blacks. But the problem of public space violence—seen in the extraordinary distress, trauma and pain many poor inner-city families experience following the killing of a family member or close relative—also deserves our special attention.'....

"The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000....

"Gun violence can have a series of serious snowball effects in education, health, incarceration, family instability, and social capital... And as Wilson suggests, these costs weigh largely on the shoulders of black Americans....

"Gun violence is part of a vicious cycle of race and inequality in the U.S., reflecting existing social inequalities, and also making it even more challenging for young black people, especially young black men, to escape poverty and violence."
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/soci...jhq-VCv9LPq5r9CPMAJN1fFkMqjASs&_hsmi=24682129

Is it easy to be unconcerned about gun violence that is affecting members of another race? Would you suddenly be in favor of more gun control if white people were being gunned down at the same rate? Do you think black lives matter?

 

Gun control has never been proven to stop gun violence among blacks. There is no reason to believe it would be any different among whites. Criminals sidestep laws no matter their race.

 

Black people more often live in areas with more strict gun control laws. Maybe that's the difference.

 

Guns are not the problem in the inner cities. It is their destructive culture. If they aspired to educations, stable families and rejected drugs, they would change back to the moral culture they once were.

 

We have generally equal gun control laws around the nation, except in more liberal cities and states. So you might want to direct your reasoning as to why there exists such a disparity in the first place.

And I support all the gun control laws the Founders had back in the 1780's and 90's---nothing more.

 

Southern Democrats and the KKK were very supportive of gun control laws keeping firearms out of the hands of black people prior to the civil rights movement...

 

How in Gods' name do you expect me to buy into your perversely convoluted logic, and conclude that this is MY problem? I didn't do it! I'm not doing it! I am responsible for ZERO deaths per 100k.
How can this be? Because lives matter to me. My own life, and all of those that I do not take.
If you want to ask: "do black lives matter?" I suggest that you ask the black killers.

 

How many of those responsible for the murders have disqualifying criminal records that prohibit them from firearms ownership? How many of those murders or who commit murders have been arrested for committing felonies in the past?

 

gun control laws are generally based on racist or bigoted reasons.

1) disarming freed slaves so the Klan could oppress them

2) disarming Italian Immigrants in NYC so corrupt cops could shake them down

3) disarming blacks in the 60s to stop "urban crime"

gun control is not about controlling guns but controlling other people

- - - Updated - - -

at last 80%

when you factor out suicides and felons using guns for homicides, our rate of gun deaths are not really much different than gun banning countries in Europe

White americans rate of gun homicides are not different than white Europeans

 

There is a lot more to it than just guns. It is true or at least DOJ stats from 1980-2008 show blacks commit 52.5% of all homicides while making up 12.6% of the population. The vast majority of those homicides are blacks killing other blacks at a 93% rate.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

But is this a problem that can only be cured by the black community? Perhaps it is. Single parent families and children born out of wedlock is very high in the black community. In fact 64% of all black families are single parent. This means usually that single parent is out working or doing something else than raising their children. White single parents make up 29% by comparison and is rising. The dropout rate from school is especially high in the black community. then too are other crimes, drugs much higher in the black communities than white, Asian or Hispanic communities. A lot of the problems in the black community are the decisions made there by the youth that head off on the wrong track. Little or no supervision of the youth makes it easy for wrong decisions and actions.

When it comes to guns regardless of the community, I keep telling people it is the society. Something has changed in our society. I grew up in the 1950's when the only gun law on the book was one had to have a federal permit to own a machine gun. Yet there was only one, I repeat, one mass shooting that entire decade. So has the gun control laws helped? I personally do not think so. What has happened something in our society as a whole has gone dreadfully wrong. Blaming the ills of our society on guns is the easy way out and a path that will not stop the violence.

Black lives do matter, all lives matter. As for all the homicides in the black communities, I think those communities must address it. An outsider regardless of how good his intentions can't.

 

Once again we have the claim that black people's problems are not their fault.

Granted some are not directly, but even most of them are cause by generations of previous black disregard; run down tenements, schools with no discipline, and so forth.

As for black on black homicides??

no one is forced to have 6 kids by 4 different men...no of which take responsibility
no one is forced to tell the schools they are wrong when they try to discipline these heathens and do the parenst job
no one is forced to join a gang and sell drugs
and so on......

And don't give me that whining crap about they can't change the situation. There are plenty of super-successful black businessmen, politicians, entertainers, etc. that grew up in the ghetto's and got out by hard work. But when those black people try and tell their communities to pull up their socks, they are ostracized as having forgotten their roots, or they are not really black, or called "Uncle Tom"...

B*ll S*it....plain and simple....

Merry Christmas....

 

"Our permissive gun laws are a manifestation of racism, an evil that, in other contexts, most gun-control advocates see as a fundamental threat to American society....

"But there’s no argument that black people in the 'bad parts' of our cities have to live with utterly unacceptable levels of gun violence. In 2010, blacks, who make up only 13 percent of the population, were 55 percent of gun homicide victims. It’s no surprise that blacks favor stricter gun controls considerably more than whites do....

"The case for the racist effect of our permissive gun laws is especially powerful. There’s no way of explaining away all these deaths as aberrations. If we fail to oppose with equal passion and vigor the relentless political pressure of (mostly white) gun advocates, we force a large number of black citizens to live with the constant threat of gun violence. We’re in effect letting the Second Amendment trump the Fourteenth Amendment, implicitly preferring the right of gun ownership to the right of black people to live free from fear."
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/guns-and-racism/?_r=0

Easy access to guns has a much more devastating effect on black communities than on white communities. According to the 14th Amendment, all are entitled to equal protection of the law. Employment policies which have a disproportionately negative impact on a protected class can constitute illegal discrimination under the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

"In United States anti-discrimination law, the theory of disparate impact holds that practices in employment, housing, or other areas may be considered discriminatory and illegal if they have a disproportionate 'adverse impact' on persons in a protected class."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact

Shouldn't we be more worried about protecting black lives than black jobs?

 

blacks often live under the control of gun banning democrats in cities like Chicago and DC. Whites have more more access to firearms in most white dominated cities and areas and whites, as a whole, have the highest rate of LEGAL gun ownership

Blacks the LOWEST

yet white rates of gun violence despite having far more firearms per person, is no higher than the rates of white gun violence in Eurosocialist gun banning nations. Blacks with far less legal firearms per capita have astronomically high rates of gun violence.



so why should we whites have our rights as guaranteed by the second amendment restricted when we don't cause problems with guns?

years ago, a left wing anti gun "doctor" was presenting evidence before Congress about awful rates of gun violence etc. The Democrats like Chuck Schumer and other banners were lapping it up. Then from Idaho came Helen Chenoweth (RIP) who asked one question

Did your study involve white citizens?

deafening silence

Doctor-did your study involve white citizens


stammering-No

HC: then why should it be used to advocate the stripping of the rights of most of the citizens in this country

 

You left out the part where blacks were 50% of the shooters as well. They don't seem to have problems getting guns.

 

Funny how you do not realize you just described the -real- issue behind violent crime in the US.

If, per capita, blacks committed murder in the same proportions as whites, our murder rate would drop 37%.

 

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls

According to the FBI, the chief law enforcement organization for the united states, it is black individuals responsible for the majority of black homicides. Last year nearly ninety percent of all black homicides were committed by black offenders. Slightly more than three quarters of one percent are linked to white offenders.

In simple, uncomplicated, easy to understand terms, they are murdering themselves, rather than being victimized by whites.

 

Darwin in action.

 

You're missing the point. Easy access to guns makes violence more lethal. Thus, the lax gun laws that people like you support result in more black lives being lost. You could point out that areas where many blacks live tend to have stricter gun control laws. However, it's too easy to traffick guns from states or cities with low levels of gun control to states or cities with high levels of gun control. That's why universal background checks are needed and a one handgun a month law.

Maybe the theory of disparate impact should be updated to cover gun laws. That way cities and states wouldn't be able to get away with passing gun laws that disproportionately affect members of a protected class in a negative way.

It is important to realize that the claim that lax gun laws don't have a negative effect on whites is false. The effect is still present although it is smaller. Gun ownership was found to be linked to an increased risk of homicide even when race was controlled for:

"After each homicide, we obtained data from the police or medical examiner and interviewed a proxy for the victim. The proxies' answers were compared with those of control subjects who were matched to the victims according to neighborhood, sex, race, and age range....

"After controlling for these characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4). Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance."
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506

 

Likewise.
If, per capita, blacks committed murder in the same proportions as whites, our murder rate would drop 37%.
Why do blacks commit murder at such a disproportionately high rate?

 

And how many annual deaths do you find to be an acceptable number?

The same laws that have failed to prevent a number of the twenty five mass shootings in the state of California, committed with firearms purchased within the state.

Furthermore, your statement of enacting universal background checks would suggest you believe those that are black are not able to pass a federally mandated background check, because they possess some disqualifying criminal record. Is that what you are attempting to claim?

Precisely what are you trying to say? That the united states should enact new firearm restrictions because the black community is incapable of controlling its criminal impulses, and cannot refrain from killing one another when left to its own devices?

It is important to realize that the claim that lax gun laws don't have a negative effect on whites is false. The effect is still present although it is smaller. Gun ownership was found to be linked to an increased risk of homicide even when race was controlled for:

Arthur Kellerman no longer holds credibility. The methodology behind his study has long been debunked and discredited. He is no more viable than Josh Sugarman, director of the Violence Policy Center, claiming that the people of the united states should be lied to for the purpose of enacting firearm restrictions.

 

Drug dealers know each other. Nature of the business. Next.

 

Guns are not the problem with the inner cities, violence is just a symptom.

Do you want to really solve the problem of violence in the inner cities? Then give these people a school system that actually educates, give them school choice, give them economic opportunities, stop concentrating them in parts of the city making them easy prey to gangs and drugs (and keeping them out of sight and out of the way until election time), stop the political corruption, give these people a real voice. Give them a way out and the violence will stop. But that is not what you and the "progressives" want, you don't want your vote plantation disrupted, you don't want your political fiefdom dismantled. Guns makes a convenient excuse to keep people from thinking about real solutions.

 

A murder rate that is similar to the murder rate of other developed nations would be much more acceptable.

It sounds like you're trying to play the race card. The purpose of universal background checks would be to prevent people like you from selling guns to criminals regardless of race.

LOL. Case control methodology has not been debunked. Don't blindly believe everything the gun lobby claims.

 

It's easy to create a straw man and knock it down. I'm not opposed to other solutions to solving violence if they work. However, I don't think you can deny that easy access to guns is part of the problem. It's like pouring gasoline on a fire. You're just making already existing problems worse.

 

We live in a free country that guarantees the right to own firearms by those legal to do so. There are at least 300 million existing gun in America. Any convicted felon can send his non felon friend or relative to make the purchase for him. Many criminals have never been caught and have nothing preventing them from a legal purchase. There will always be easy access to firearms until the government forcibly removes them from all Americans.