Who was the real winner(s) in Iowa?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by William44, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sanders is calling his campaign a revolution. He is calling for action very different from other candidates and that gives him the ability to call it revolutionary. No one has to believe it, but that is what he's saying.

    IMO, the American people do not want their elected officials to simply vote 50+ times to overturn Obamacare without making a single change and nothing else. I get that some were elected with that mandate, but the people want more than just useless bickering. The last two Congresses were the least productive in the history of the US. The people may not want everything to be bipartisan, but they also don't want a "do nothing" Congress.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Which Republican candidate do you see as being able to pull independents?
     
  2. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    let's put that to the test and put emotion aside

    from where will the funding come to pay for health care for all, free education, paid family leave? Keep in mind that there is $19 trillion in debt to pay too

    next, was Hillary truthful about Benghazi and it being because of a video? Was she being truthful when she repeated the statement several days past 9-11 ?

    Was there classified or top secret data on the email server which is a federal offense?

    can you be truthful with the answers?

    If so, the final question

    do you see any of that mattering to Democrat voters? I don't
     
  3. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Let me be clearer...I like him personally...and Kasich is the LEAST scary Republican I could see getting into the Oval Office.

    He genuinely seems to be the "compassionate conservative" that Dubya claimed to be....not a race-baiter (Trump) or a dangerous apocalyptic theocrat (Cruz) or a war-monger (Rubio/Jeb/Christie...Cruz again).

    But like Rubio on amnesty....but more so? Kasich doesn't stand a chance with the slim majority of the GOP who are total wackos and would "stay home and let Hillary win it...what's the difference?"
     
  4. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    Democrats like Kasich
    MSNBC likes Kasich

    nuff said
     
  5. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    From both sides of the aisle, the caucus goers who participated, voted, and accepted the results of the night.
     
  6. LeeroyHim

    LeeroyHim Banned

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    Yes show me that mind reading power and explain the Rand paul fans thinking MS sabotaged the debate.
     
  7. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    We are not talking about the debate. We are talking about the election process called a caucus.
     
  8. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Sanders, Cruz, Trump, and Carson are all trying to portray themselves as revolutionary outsiders. As the reality of their positions become clearer their "real change" credibility diminishes along with their voter support. Of course, GOPe opposition to Cruz helps him.

    I do not see the GOP ever eliminating ObamaCare until almost all of the current GOP incumbents are sent home from Washington. Real change not possible because the GOP and its candidates do not want real change. Ditto the Democrat Party.

    Of course the Democrats will be happily gut the GOPe at every opportunity - no change there either. Trump, a populist, has the most pull with independents.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The info coming to us is so hugely affected by the partisan way in which it was gathered that there is NO POSSIBILITY of accepting the GOP version of the story that was very clearly cooked by the GOP in a years long expression of hate - hate that came into the political arena as Boehner and McConnell both stated that their primary objective was for our president to FAIL!!!

    Now, you wonder how a process that corrupt could possibly be doubted???



    As for education, we are not going to succeed by ignoring the need for higher education. When we were an agricultural economy, we provided 8th grade. When we moved to manufacturing, we found that more education was required so we REQUIRED (and provided) high school.

    Today we've moved beyond manufacturing. We are competing with the world in the realm NOT of manufacturing, but in information management, in high technology, in ideas. Other nations are preparing for that. In Germany, any high school kid who shows potential and wants more education can graduate high school debt free regardless of family assets. Others are doing that, too.

    New businesses are started by college graduates. College graduates have greater flexibility in moving to different jobs when our economy changers (unlike Detroit auto workers). College students earn an average of about $1M more during their careers and pay more in taxes because of that, too - thus paying our nation for the education we provide, plus requiring less support in old age, etc.

    It's not a matter of how we can afford it. It's a matter of whether we want to remain competitive, whether we want to be able to pay down our debt, whether we want the same standard of living, whether we want to continue being able to maintain the world's greatest military, etc., etc.


    Health care: I'll just point out that every other first world nation has a single payer based system that serves their entire nation AND they pay FAR LESS than we do on health care.

    So, the real question SHOULD be how to make the transition.
     
  10. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe you're right, but he has, by far, the most negatives of any of the Republican candidates among independents, if you trust in polls.

    [​IMG]
    http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polli...rats-independents-negative-gop-candidate.aspx

    On Obamacare, I knew it wouldn't be overturned. The votes weren't there. I didn't really want it to be overturned with no other options available. However there will have to be changes made and I wanted them to make changes, tweak, and strengthen the law instead of doing virtually nothing. Like you said though, there are many that want to do nothing, want no real change.

    Both parties will attempt to gut the other.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Woops, I meant that a German kid who shows potential will graduate COLLEGE debt free regardless of his/her parent's wealth.
     
  12. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the Democrats need to hire some Depends changers for their Geriatric candidates.
     
  13. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Leasing the land is an option. But most around where my dad lived, they sold the land but kept the house and perhaps an acre or two. Yes, it is time for the TV personality to fad so we can get down to serious business. I heard Huckabee dropped out today. Now we need a few more to drop out.
     
  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    If the GOP really wanted to go after the DP it would have been pressing strategies to greatly diminish its core base for decades. The core base of the DP is the government workforce and the workforce of the dependent crony capitalists. The GOP just doesn't get that, or it pretends not to.

    Only a real serious government shutdown at the beginning of a Congress could check the DP now. This would require a huge turnover election and the ouster of most current Republicans in the Congress. IOW, not a chance.

    Trump has large negatives because he has been attacked by a united political establishment that includes the MSM news media and much of what passes for "conservative" media. What is amazing is his popularity in the face of such a firestorm of character attacks.

    Trump has proven that very aggressive opposition to even a united entrenched bipartisan establishment can work very well. Probably a lesson there.

    People want real change - they want the government back on the leash or caged. The American Revolution was not a "conservative" revolution - it was a very radical one. Hence the COTUS - a unique and very radical document.
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The real winner was ...... BBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNN baby burn !

    Feel it !! Feel the Burn !!

    Its no surprise that the white religious zealots in a state full of white religious zealots flocked to the 2 religious zealot candidates ... Cruz and Rubio.

    What is a surprise is that Bernie did so well. That is amazing.

    The biggest loser.... is perhaps then next reality TV show that Trump should visit. Not that it was a huge loss but, there was a definite "stall" in the momentum of The Donald.

    On to NH.
     
  16. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    It was Dubya's father George HW that was the "compassionate conservative" (a thousand points of light! LOL).

    Kasich almost belongs to another era. An era when politicians actually earned their stripes by being good at government, regardless of ideology.

    He makes me think of people like George HW Bush, Gerald Ford, Bob Dole, or Nelson Rockefeller.

    Those are the sort of political leaders I look for. Not bomb throwers or reality TV stars with a phony act.
     
  17. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    The American people are the winners. The people of Iowa chose Cruz and bestowed the Iowa curse on his campaign......thanks Iowa!
     
  18. Thomas Howard

    Thomas Howard New Member

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    Maybe the rest of the country should listen to Iowa. The last two nominees didn't win Iowa and they both got crushed in the general.
     
  19. RonnieFan

    RonnieFan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He definitely has no chance of winning the RNC pick for the presidential candidate.

    But, if he was picked as the VP choice, it would give the GOP a better chance of winning the presidency. (Ohio's a big plus)
     
  20. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    a chicken in every pot and a Ford in every garage

    the free stuff just has different names

    we are a nation $19 trillion in debt. From where does the money come to pay for even more free stuff?
     
  21. Uber Lib

    Uber Lib New Member

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    butthurt noted
     
  22. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    not at all

    it is a reasonable question asking from where does the money come.

    Let's consider free education for all

    do the teachers agree to work for free or less wages?
    Do the textbook people agree to chage 90% less?
    Do adminstrators agree to big pay cuts?
    Do all the new required buildings get built for free?

    Do we require that everyone attend higher education?
    Do we then also raise the wages of Starbucks employees, WalMart greeters and landscapers because those jobs still need to be done and we'd have college grads doing all of them and we can't have college grads earning low wages.

    Remember, we're talking ENTITLEMENTS here and removing the concept of striving to reach a goal.
     
  23. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is clear that Rand Paul has been unable to hold onto his father's diehard supporters. That likely locked down when he came out against the Confederate flag. His father was a hardcore support of the South's side in the Civil War claiming it was unnecessary and that Lincoln was a war criminal.
    Rand Paul disavowing what his father said essentially largely terminated his relationship with his father's supporters.

    In an interview with Boston talk radio host Jeffrey Kuhner, Republican presidential candidate Rand Paul came out against the Confederate flag, calling it “a symbol of human bondage and slavery.”

    “The South Carolina flag issue; a lot of Republican candidates have taken a position on it, some say it’s an issue for states rights, it’s a state issue, others say that should the Confederate flag should be brought down,” Kuhner said. “Where do you stand with [South Carolina] Governor Nikki Haley? She says the Confederate flag should go: agree, disagree?

    “No, I agree,” he said. “I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery, and particularly when people use it obviously for murder and to justify hatred so vicious that you would kill somebody. I think that symbolism needs to end, and I think South Carolina’s doing the right thing.”

    Paul noted that it was a decision for South Carolinians to make, “But if I were in South Carolina, that’s what I’d vote to do and that’s what I would recommend to anybody who asked me my opinion.”

    That was a fundamental core contradiction to his father's view and that of Ron Paul's supporters.
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    The thing about education is that it is a necessary investment in America.

    If we are not economically competitive in this world, that $19T will be only one piece of the problem we face.

    And, we can retain some manufacturing and our service industries, but the real competition is going to come from those who have the education to drive the information age - bio-tech, high tech, information management, etc.

    We can not possibly afford to give up on that.

    Remember what Trump said? He pointed out that the $3T we've spent in the ME on our wars there has gotten us nothing but worse off.

    Think where we could be if we had spent that $3T in America on education, the infrastructure we need - and, yes, maybe even paying down the debt a little.
     

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