I have been here a relatively short time, and yet I see an alarming trend, to lock threads when they get a bit hot, this forum tops the chart when it comes to bans, this is a sincere and honest question and am prepared to drop it if asked to, however is this forum dedicated to intellectual pursuit of truth or primitive cave dweller tactics ? honest and truly not flaming anyone, only asking a sincere question.
` As I see it, there are certain dysfunctional people in every online N&P forum, who have massive obsessions with certain issues. Abortion is one but in this case, it's LGBT issues. Sincere and honest discussion is one thing, trolling to post things that were set up simply to bait people for a reaction, is another.
Nearly 1 dozen threads were closed and locked by a new member posting intense and personal attack gay-bashing our gay and lesbian members in his first week on the forum. Outright hate mongering has 2 effects: 1. Few new people will sign up except equal radical bigots, racists and sexists and 2. Bigots, homophobes, racists and sexists will flood the forum both mocking all other members and cheering themselves. Haters love hating and attention whoring. Search engines such as Google pick up these thread titles - so anyone searching to post racist, homophobic, women-bashing etc messages online will FLOOD in if those threads are not eliminated. Do you really think there could be "heated discusion" if 90% of threads on this LGTB rights board were screaming messages calling gays pedophile child rapists and every possible gay-bashing slur possible - mocking, flaming and trolling anyone who disagrees? No. It kills free speech and ultimately kills the forum itself. The result is free speech. It is the end of free speech and ultimately the end of the forum. I saw TWO major political topics forums with more activity than this shut down when it took an anything-goes on hate-messages - and became of more hate-mongering, racist, homophobic and women-bashing than even such as Stormfront. It escalated so rapidly and intensely the forums were suddenly eliminated without any notice. Many had been on those forums for years and it all was suddenly gone. These forums are not like a discussion group, because it is annoymous and therefore no accountability. The forum would just become teenagers and hate-mongers incessantly flaming, trolling and spamming the forum with massive hate messages.
A cave dwelling troll, believe it or not is really good fur intellectual honesty and the persuit or truth. They are normally biased, and they take a great deal of time exposing that. It's good. People, rational people anyway can see them for what they are
When I first arrived at this forum I was quite impressed with the level of debate that went on, yes it did become a little heated at times but, for the most, members ignored it, over the last 12 months or so it has become a common theme for some posters to have no interest in actually debating the subject but immediately start misrepresenting others arguments, lying about what was said and abusing the poster .. I used to ignore it, now I fight back. I spend a lot of my time debating in the abortion forum here and have had numerous excellent debates with people who are directly opposed to my pro-choice stance, which for the most ended with us agreeing to disagree, the problem as I see it is those posters have gone and we are left with the people who have no intent to debate only to stroke their egos with their own comment and woe betide anyone who disagrees with them. I am hopefully that there are still people here who can debate intellectually like adults.
This kind of complaint pops up every so often (on most general forums I read) but I don’t see it. Most people don’t seem to have any difficulties posting and debating without moderator actions and lots of threads, including ones on emotive or strongly felt issues, seem to exist without getting locked. I’d suggest the few posters who do face regular difficulties in this area might need to look inwardly rather than outwardly. If anything, I think the mods are sometimes too lenient towards regularly disruptive posters, not least I suspect because they don’t want to bad image the resultant moaning presents. That aside, it’s always worth remembering that mods are human beings, which means they both can make mistakes and have feelings and will almost always be volunteers, doing this thankless task in their free time. Here, in general, I think they do a decent job in difficult environment (and I’m not only saying that because it’s a good idea to stay on their good side ).
I've been a member of quite a few discussion forums and I have to say this is the most tolerant one of them all.
Trolls come and go. It is inevitable for a political chat forum to generate more then normal amounts. Civil banter is not really taught as it used to be. We watch in the news as speaking and debating has turned into who can yell the loudest. I don't want to say its a generational problem. There are many young people like myself who have been taught how to be civil and understand that we are all different in appearance, gender, sexuality and beliefs. Sadly I do not think this is a common thing taught anymore. Our search for having a "Even Playing Field" and overwhelming political correctness has taken away the concept of everyone being different. This is of course a personal opinion. As time goes these sorts of forums for intelligent people to learn, grow, change and understand one another will be full of trolls and babies. I just hope the mature will over look the trolls and remember to stay level headed and not be baited when chatting with another serious party. I am sure most of us have had fire spat at us after posting something meaningful to someone who has been a victim of Troll bait. Gay, straight, white, black, democrat, republican. I hope we can all remember that one person should not be allowed to ruin a day. And that there are many people on here that will love you for who you are. We can look past stereo types and just respect one another. Some of the best chats I have had on here are with people I would easily say that are on the other end of the political spectrum. There can be respect. With that being said... I hope all you sinners burn in ever lasting fire. <3
True! The abject trolling is surely annoying at times... but it can very often serve as a catalyst for deeper and more substantive discussion.
I suppose it depends on what one means by tolerant. I think the left-right moderation is balanced here. I have been to other sites that are "First Amendment Friendly" type sites that really are the pits in terms of being just 90% trolling by one side or the other on any given issue which to some may be more "tolerant" I suppose. I have seen sites denigrate quickly for allowing white supremacists basically flood the site with unchecked hate.
when you post within this niche subsection you do so knowing that it's a topic steeped in emotion and belief without any medical proof. I don't see threads locked or bans handed out in this subsection but you do see thread closures in the main sections when threads are created exposing the suspension of Constitutional Rights of Christians. This subsection even permits insults toward those who speak from facts and not emotion. So, if you wish to post within this subsection then you do so understanding that it is a section grounded in emotion and nothing else
There's been 9 threads in this subsection in the past 2 weeks that have been closed/deleted and at least one person who has been banned (judging by their lack of activity), so your supposition that no thread closures or bans happen in this subsection appears to be false. You claim to speak from facts, but refuse to back them up, and refuse to acknowledge other people's facts, especially ones that purport to the alleged suspension of the Constitutional Rights of Christians.
the 1st Amendment is quite clear and made the first for a reason When a Christian is forced by the govt to go against their faith, solely for servicing a sexual deviant lifestyle, that is anti-Constitutional. We are not discussing how one is born but instead, how one chooses to have sex. It is not I who who makes the calim of "born homosexual" despite there being no medical test to support that belief That is why I assert that the topic is steeped in emotion because those who choose the gay lifestyle need to believe that they were born that way and aren't choosing to hop into the sack with same-sex partners. It's no different than smokers who claim that they cannot quit.
If you follow the rules of the forum, it's hard to get in trouble. Just remember, the rules are the rules whether you agree with them or not. And if you do not, perhaps another forum would suit you better.
Sec, those who hate gay people and being gay need to believe it's a choice so that they can criticize it because otherwise it's akin to hating someone born with any kind of thing that differs from the norm. And for some, it's to liberate God from having made folks that way because God would never ever do that because he hates gay people too, apparently.
God did not make someone choose the gay lifestyle God gave people free-will to choose gay sex pedophilia necrophilia murder theft etc etc It does not mean that those actions are condoned Diagreeing with the lifestyle choices of someone is not hate. You are free to have as much gay-sex as you want. You are free to make claims which are not supported in the Bible; you'd be wrong but you can make the claims.
Some homophobes are in-the-closet, self-hating gays themselves. You can spot them by their obsessive hatred of gays...and, for the really neurotic? the "excuses" they make for how it's "not a sin for me to be attracted to the same gender...it's only a sin if I actually have sex with the same gender". (IOW, they're masturbating to homoerotic fantasies...but they think "God won't consider me gay as long as I'm not touching somebody with the same parts!")
Just my two (Euro) cents: I'm not the biggest fan of how partisan the debates on this forum can become, and there are a couple of site rules which I really don't appreciate: the swearing one would be the biggest example. But on the whole, I think there is a good diversity of opinions here; I mean, we have members of all political leanings, from communists (like yours truly) to fascists, and different opinions are tolerated and encouraged. The moderation team, from what I know, is pretty unbiased and will only ban people, trash posts and so on if they contravene the (rather stringent, but reasonable) rules. This is about as good as political discussion on the internet gets. If you think this is bad, some of the political boards on Reddit will make you despair for humanity.
Do you understand that is YOUR BELIEF? I mean, if you can/do live by that... I don't think that gay people (or others) should attack you for the same. But in this reality... you should realize and be able to admit, that one's sexual-orientation isn't any clear matter of "choice" or "lifestyle". And even if a homosexual person were out here not doing a THING with their body (and/or likely living the exact same "lifestyle" as heterosexuals)... THEY ARE STILL HOMOSEXUAL. Belief in God, Jesus or whatever religious value... will NOT switch one's sexuality. If that has ever happened... we haven't seen it proven. I understand that is a matter of one's 'faith'; if it is something they 'believe' BY faith... then that is what is REAL TO THEM. Yet... that does NOT define reality itself. I understand faith to a degree and live by it myself, yet I know that my beliefs of or about what should be... do NOT define this physical reality, nor does it negate scientific findings (of which there are MANY, concerning human sexuality). It's like this: Not every belief of a religious believer is rooted in reality, nor is the speaking of that belief something which brings forth some manifestation of what's uttered. Still... I PERSONALLY know the value of faith, hope and love. Just as religion does not and cannot define everything about us... I know that by the same token, science does not answer every problem or question human beings can ask. But this perpetual PUSHING of limitations upon people via religion, is (and has been) the cause of SO MANY terrible things in the history of mankind, things well beyond the scope of two men or women getting together to participate in sexual activity. Again, I can respect that religion is a (personal) thing that many of us regard as part of our lives (a lifestyle)... but this horrible notion of projecting one's faith upon other human beings, especially in the sense that they should somehow 'conform' to our own personal beliefs... is just too much and it has almost always been. Mankind's history (even today's news) is replete with actual examples of what I'm pointing out here. Homosexuality (even the expressions of it) is no "lifestyle", it is a person's sexual-orientation. There is a LOT of complex stuff that goes along with that, and defining the same takes more than mere disdain or condemnation via someone's ancient religious texts or beliefs.
BTW... ALL of things you listed are crimes; no legal consent involved. Do you see the difference between that list and a person's sexual-orientation? And please consider the reality that you should NOT be compelling other human beings to adhere to YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS. Yes, I know some people will be attracted to the same... but this incessant hammering that so many religious people inflict upon others, is just too much. We already know it's not the right thing to do... where it concerns a person's sexual-orientation; it causes so many problems that are best avoided.
I would never force Christianity upon anyone as you described, it is my faith It is no different than your faith of being "born homosexual" the similarity is that we both believe in our faiths, me in God and you in "born homsoexual" the difference is that I would not look to the govt to force a waiter/ress to stand and wait by our table as we pray before they could put our meals down or for that matter, be within earshot of it. You believe that it is the role of govt to force Christians to be in attendance or assist in the celebration of the gay lifestyle - - - Updated - - - I would never force Christianity upon anyone as you described, it is my faith It is no different than your faith of being "born homosexual" the similarity is that we both believe in our faiths, me in God and you in "born homsoexual" the difference is that I would not look to the govt to force a waiter/ress to stand and wait by our table as we pray before they could put our meals down or for that matter, be within earshot of it. You believe that it is the role of govt to force Christians to be in attendance or assist in the celebration of the gay lifestyle
No, there is a huge difference. One difference is that there is no scientific evidence for Christianity (as it is purely a faith issue) while homosexuality has undergone massive scientific investigation for decades, resulting in a fairly thorough understanding based on evidence. So, you certainly may have your faith. But, you can not compare that to the factual understanding of homosexuality. And, most of Christianity recognizes that. Another difference is that Christianity includes a subculture that actively promotes organized (even governmental) discrimination against those who are homosexual. In fact, that Christian subculture acts in conflict with our constitution in that regard. To combat that, our government protects your lifestyle, my lifestyle and the lifestyle of every other American as long as our lifestyles don't break the law in some way.
Well, I've seen political forces at work since I was a child in America, that DO use their "faith" to impose things upon people. Enough of that!! It's is second only to 'racism' as one of the most dire problems we've endured as a society. So much so, I eventually learned to speak out against it. When I was about 40... I just couldn't stand what I was seeking anymore. People pushing their 'religion', making laws which promoted their values while essentially diminishing freedoms/liberties overall. That makes no sense. And I did not even make that claim. (Science has said something about that. It's not Biblical per se and it's not what you erroneously claim above.) People need to STOP making things up about human sexuality. As long as they aren't being forced to get into anything sexual without legal consent... they just need to go on about their own business. Please... stop submitting that 'absurdity'. It simply isn't logical, and false for you to claim. People are what they are; that shouldn't be ruled-against. But pushing SEXUAL ACTS or RELIGIOUS BELIEFS on people, we can erect reasonable limitations concerning... and we should. Homosexuality is not the problem so many make it. And virtually no one wants religious beliefs latched onto laws, which affect us all. A "Christian" might think they want that... until it's from a religion they don't agree with. And... if you open a business which caters to and/or serves the PUBLIC, then in the interest of promoting and maintaining a civilized society... people who own such establishments really should agree to serve those they may agree with morally, politically, ethnically...etc. I don't know how... but I think 'some' Christians are going to end up isolating and marginalizing themselves (at least emotionally). That has happened before and probably will again.
if medical science can ever prodice a test to validate that a newborn baby is homosexual then the "born gay" beleif will have proof. But, if it can be proven that one is "born homosexual" much like perhaps one can be born with a heart irregularity, then a cure can be found. Those who want to be cured could be. Until that day, despite your insistence that "the debate is over", in reality it isn't. There is no medical test to support your belief. I have my faith in God and you have your faith in "born gay" That's OK but the difference is that I would never ask the govt to force my faith upon you nor should you ask the govt to force your faith upon me. We're talking about beliefs and lifestyles and looking for the govt to suport one but punish the other.
