Why Minimum Wage Must Be Raised*

Nonsense. Do the math. Very few people make minimum wage. Don't want to pay the 2% increase per year, don't buy a burger. Price is determined by supply and demand, not the minimum wage. You've been lied to, and don't even realize it.

 

You are assuming employers will not try to achieve gains in productivity through more efficient means. New technologies are being developed, virtually everyday.

 

That is a false definition. Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production. Communism is the ideology which advocates a revolution (class war), the collective ownership of the means of production, and then the creation of a classless, moneyless society, based on the principle of 'each according to his ability, each according to his need.'

 

nope; socialism starts with a Social Contract like our federal Constitution and supreme law of the land.

the right is simply clueless and Causeless like usual, and not in "sync" with their "twice a day" opportunities.

From Socialism 101: Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers. --The Federalist Number Two

 

California farmers have been doing it for decades. It's only difficult for lazy slavers.

 

I'm not talking about green cards!

Who May Qualify for H-2A Classification?

To qualify for H-2A nonimmigrant classification, the petitioner must:

1. Offer a job that is of a temporary or seasonal nature.
2. Demonstrate that there are not enough U.S. workers who are able, willing, qualified, and available to do the temporary work.
3. Show that employing H-2A workers will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers.
4. Generally, submit a single valid temporary labor certification from the U.S. Department of Labor with the H-2A petition. (A limited exception to this requirement exists in certain “emergent circumstances.”

Your moaning and whining about all your problems as an employer fit perfectly with the requirements for obtaining H2A visas for your employees. All that's stopping you is your fear of not getting them for free.

 

Were it not for the excessive regulations, they could rent a place for 100 dollars per month.
Strange how that never enters the equation in cost of living analysis.

 

When gas was $3.50, I supported a MW increase more strongly than I do now that it is less than $2. There is an unprecedented level of competition in the economy. Lawyers are competing with legal zoom with copy and paste from websites; jewelry stores are competing with people sitting at home running an etsy jewelry making business; record/book stores are competing with digital downloads competing with illegal downloads. There is just not much slack in the total economy. Rise wages/lower wages; raise taxes/lower taxes....it is all dancing on a waterbed. A gain one place will result in a setback in another.

 

I'm interested in solutions. That isn't one.

 

Nope. Socialism starts with the collective or state ownership of the means of production.

From Merriam-Webster: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

From the Oxford Dictionary: A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

(In Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

 

Freedom of association and Contract. It is not the fault of Californians, that the federal government is not solving that federal problem at the federal borders with the federal powers already delegated in Article 1, Section 8.

 

Consumer price is 'partially' decided by demand, however, if the business cannot continue to earn reasonable profits, your burger won't be available to buy.

No one is lying when understanding that higher business expenses are a risk to both business and society...

 

Absolute non-sense.

There is thing called a profit margin. That is, the money in excess it costs a company to operate. That excess money is then filtered down to shareholders.

When the cost of ANY product or service is mandated to be increased, the cost of goods and services will rise in parallel. You think that McDonalds will simply eat the cost of a higher labor rate from their profits?

Supply and demand dictate price RIGHT UP UNTIL the left starts to impact the natural market with regulation. At that point, the price of goods and services are impacted by both the supply and demand component as well as the regulatory requirements.

How you can argue for artificially higher wages, and then immediately say that the natural market dictates price alone, is absolutely baffling to me.

- - - Updated - - -

That is another option.

All things considered, maintaining or increasing profitability is always the goal.

Evaluating cost of goods or services in relation to a mandated increase in labor overhead however will result in a higher priced goods and services.

 

Asking people to be responsible of their life decisions isn't an answer?

Instead, we should artificially reward people with higher wages after they dropped out of high school and got arrested among other poor life choices? Surely that will teach them to be responsible, and get job training, or anything else that actually makes them more valuable to the labor force. /sarcasm

Opportunities and options are out there for people to make better than minimum wage. They haven't taken the appropriate steps to warrant that, and you solution is to just give them a higher wage and assume that will encourage them to make better decisions?

Terrible idea.

 

First you're a rude idiot and don't deserve any response. But this one last time I will respond to your BS...it makes no difference what I do as an employer if there are no people to perform the work! Just because I request H-2A workers from outside of the US does not mean workers are going to respond. Labor must be available in my area and currently labor is in severe shortage! Most of the people working in these jobs are transient, going from location to location, seeking the most work they can find for the highest pay, and having H-2A status does nothing to provide labor to me. Forget all the righteous BS you spew because we are not privileged to operate in your perfect world. I am but one of the lowly farms in the USA and when there is no labor available to operate the farm we go out of business! You know I pay $19 to $25/hour yet you make your BS statements about me wanting labor for free...your an idiot...

 

If minimum wage is $7.25/hour, and higher in some City areas, and a person accepts a job earning minimum wage, no matter all the political BS, the wage that is accepted is the wage that person must live. It is stupid to accept a $10/hour job then whine to everyone that you require $15/hour. People at all wage levels MUST live within their means! Whatever wage they obtain, whatever their potential, this defines the limits of their spending. If they are unhappy with their situation, the individual must 'evaluate their life choices'. Complaining to government or idiot politicians will never solve their problem!

 

Resorting to a dictionary is a fallacy since that definition was invented for political purposes and is the equivalent to political jargon. You need to cite an encyclopedia and provide a line of reasoning for your position. There is no appeal to the fallacy of appealing to the authority of a dictionary.

You have to explain it, like I did.

Socialism must start with a social Contract. Why do you believe it doesn't? Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system.

 

I agree to disagree. Supply side economics should be supplying us with better governance at lower cost, not trickle down.

 

This is true, but obviously it has never happened. The largest increase in cost we've seen recently is the cost of food. The burger joints are not only still around, more have opened. Plenty of burgers available to buy. Apparently, consumers are okay with the higher prices. Raising the minimum wage has a far less impact on cost than the price of food. Labor typically amounts to about 30% of revenue, while food amounts to 50% of revenue. Like I said, do the math. Raising the minimum wage incrementally (I use California's law as an example) comes to a 2% increase per year for six years. That can be tacked on to price, cost reductions can be achieved in other areas, or an ambitious owner may decide to take a slight hit on profit to undercut his competitors in a price war. It's not cut-and-dried. Regardless, my comment was directed at those who are claiming that raising the minimum wage has an impact on overall inflation. This has never been shown to be the case.

Haha. Stop the drama. Name some minimum wage jobs that are essential to society? Essential goods and services are what impact inflation: Food, clothing, shelter, energy, healthcare. Those are the driving forces in inflation, not burger flippers or the counter staff at Payday Loan Inc.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on consumers. If aggregate demand for burgers amounts to $1 per unit, that's all a company can charge, regardless of costs. IOW, if it costs you $1.10 to produce a burger, you can either sell it for a dollar and take a slight loss, or you can toss it in the trash and take a total loss. The real world operates in a much more complex manner, but that is the meat and bones of it.

The "natural market" is a myth. No such market exists, unless you include black markets. Even in black markets, there are suppliers (gangs) fighting for turf. Not exactly "natural."

You're confusing price with cost. See my first paragraph. Price is determined on agreement of the consumer and seller. Ever bargained for a car? Price is a mutually agreed upon quantity.

Prices might go up by a few percent. Most people will pay. Some may decide that eating out twice a week is one time too many. It's not the end of the world.

Also, let's not ignore the positive impacts. Raising the minimum wage has a stimulative effect. Local people have more money to spend locally, which helps local businesses. It will also give some relief to the welfare system.

 

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire View Post
Consumer price is 'partially' decided by demand, however, if the business cannot continue to earn reasonable profits, your burger won't be available to buy.[/I

Of course it's true and it happens all the time! Businesses, especially food, come and go like the breeze and there are myriad reasons for this and no doubt one of them can be labor costs. Don't you believe higher labor costs are responsible for automation, or outsourcing, or facilities located outside of the US? How many of these companies who did not take these steps are still in business...my guess is zero. No matter the expense, at all times, business must sustain reasonable profits...when they can't they resort to myriad solutions and if they don't solve their problem, they close the doors.

Regarding increased minimum wage impacting inflation...IMO it certainly will effect inflation! Today the median wage in the US is about $17/hour which means about 75 million Americans earn at or below this number. If you increase minimum wage to $15/hour in 5-6 years, you must also increase the median wage by the same rate, and also increase wages above median wage by the same rate...once the dust clears, you have burdened business with approximately a 100% increase in labor costs. Since nothing is free...most all of this higher business expense will be passed onto the consumer in higher prices...inflation...less competitiveness in the global marketplace.

I never said any job is essential to society?? BTW; the price of food is directly effected by the wages received by burger-flippers...

 

Yes, everything is in the equation. What are "reasonable" profits? Five percent? Ten? Fifty? What is reasonable is determined by the business owner.

This is false. Beyond minimum wage, no one is required to raise wages of anyone. Please show me statistics to support the claim. The minimum wage has been raised before. Never has it resulted in an across-the-board increase in wages of 100%.

The price of food is most directly effected by supply, as are all other essential goods and services. That a few more burgers might be sold to minimum wage earners will have a zero to negligible effect on the price of food.

 

So a government worker who sits on his fat worthless ass all day making 60K a year can sit on his fat worthless ass making 75K a year at the expense of the people in the private sector who are busting their ass making 25K and will have to pay more taxes to facilitate those raises. Great idea you are a fricking genius ! We need some more great ideas like that so please keep posting them Einstein.

 

I believe the private sector should not be burdened by the social cost of a minimum wage, enforced through the police power and is unnecessary and improper under our Constitutional form of Government.

An public policy constitutes an public use. Eminent Domain must be applied since informed consent with just compensation must be a doctrine in favor of Individual Liberty under any form of Capitalism.

Simply providing recourse to a form of minimum wage on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States will simulate the capital effect of full employment under our form of capitalism.

Simply solving for a simple poverty of money among the unemployed will engender a positive multiplier effect on our economy, and is that promotion of the general welfare.

 

This is false. Socialism is any time you steal one persons property in order to give the stolen property to someone else to manipulate wealth or income.