The NRA and gun owners are using the 2nd Amendment as a scapegoat. When we are talking about enacting a, "No Fly, No Guns" list, that sets off a emotional reaction from the gun crowd that democrats are stomping on 2nd Amendment rights, or liberals want to take away our guns. Yes, to those who use the Constitution as a Kleenex, do you really want to keep using the 2nd Amendment, give it a bad name, by using it as a defense every time a gun restriction comes up? Are you really wanting to sink as low as the pathetic NRA? Fact is it makes sense that if someone is on the FBI Watch List, and is deemed unsafe to fly, it is deemed unsafe for that person to attain a gun. What is wrong with that statement, Ted Nugent? Furthermore, what is wrong with expanding background checks at gun shows, exploit those loopholes, and online sales? What is wrong with that statement, conservatives? Stop using the 2nd Amendment as a scapegoat for protecting your hoard of assault rifles, and handguns (a user on here has disclosed he has a total of 100 guns). You make yourself look pathetic when every whiny response consists of, "That's a violation of the 2nd Amendment, That's a violation of the 2nd Amendment." In fact, the "No Fly, No Buy" idea started floating around after the San Bernandino shooting, by democrats but was shot down by the REPUBLICAN-led house. That begs the question, other than abusing the 2nd Amendment excuse, if Republicans REALLY want to combat terrorism, or are they solely using the line to buy voters with Mr. Trump's influence? This will be good. And for God's sake, stop crying heresy citing the 2nd Amendment, while you hide your assault rifles under your pillows, and mattress.
Not a conservative. I oppose banning firearms sales to people on the no fly list because that list has no due process.
I don't think scapegoat means what you think it means. We don't use it as something to take guilt away or something to blame. In fact, it's the opposite. We use it as a way to show that we have a constitutional right to bear arms. If somebody is unsafe to fly, they are unsafe to walk around the country freely. There should be no no-fly list. If anybody is deemed dangerous, they should be charged and prosecuted. Do you understand the term "due process." It is in the 5th and 14th amendments. We are guaranteed by those amendment to have due process before life, liberty or property is taken away from us. I don't know about you, but IMHO, being able to travel freely seems like liberty to me. All the rights in the Constitution are similarly forms of liberty. You would advocate that due to a bureaucratic whim, people should be allowed to be denied basic rights? There is no such thing as a pure online sale of guns. It is illegal to send guns by way of USPS, UPS or FedEx, unless you are sending it to an FFL. I cannot sell a gun to my cousin in Georgia, and send it by USPS. If I wanted to sell a gun to my cousin in Georgia, I have to find an FFL that is willing to send it to Georgia to another FFL. That FFL is going to do a background check on my cousin to make sure he is legally allowed to do so. Please stop spreading the liberal lie that you can buy guns online like you buy a paperback from Amazon. The laws for buying guns at gun shows are EXACTLY the same as the laws for buying guns in other places. A FFL has to do a background check, either in a gun show or at his store. A private seller doesn't have to do a background check at either place, but can be arrested for selling to someone not allowed to buy a gun. I'm a Republican. Trump means nothing to me as he is one in name only. Pretty much he's off his rocker, and may be suffering early dementia, or he may just be as dumb as a box of rocks. I cry for basic liberty, which you and your ilk seem to be obsessed with taking away from us. - - - Updated - - - Very concisely and precisely said.
The Democrats are using the 2ND amendment as a scapegoat. This is one issue I can't stand about dems.
We are at this point in time, because one side isn't really interested in compromise, and the other side spouts extreme rhetoric. There's a loud minority on one side that is very dishonest about the 2nd Amendment, while the other side states that closing loopholes at gun shows, and universal background checks are an infringement on the 2nd amendment.
Sounds like you're more interested in attacking a political enemy by passing legislation against them than you are in reducing gun violence, but that's pretty much all the dems are pushing for anyway. Fear brings votes, and scary looking guns bring more fear than trying to ban daddy's old shotgun or the pistol (most often used in gun crime) that a voter may own for self defense.
Stumped: DHS' Jeh Johnson Can't Name Gun Law that Could've Stopped Mateen "Mateen was not on the no-fly or terrorist watch list, and had passed a background check. 'So what is the actual legislative response' that would have stopped the Orlando attack? Johnson resorted to claiming that Congress had 'a lot of ideas,' but could not name one that would have made a difference." ~Ruled by worse than useless retards http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/0...ant-name-gun-law-that-couldve-stopped-mateen/
Civil rights are not something to compromise about. Besides, given the intolerant and hateful nature of the enemy, why would we ever want to compromise with them? The trouble is, the Obama Administration has been abusing the background check process by adding all sorts of law-abiding citizens to the list. If you reform the process so that it is back to blocking criminals and the dangerously insane, and you prosecute Mr. Obama in federal court for his criminal abuse of the system, perhaps we will regain enough faith in the system to stop blocking universal background checks.
No, you have it backwards. Obama is using politics, terrorist attacks and deaths to promote gun control, and as cover his foreign and domestic failures. Personally, I don't care what Obama does because the election will go against him and democrats in 2016. Steve
Oh, sorry. I thought you was saying how the left use the second as a scapegoat. You would be right if you did.
Well, while the right wing obsesses over the 2nd Amendment supposedly being, "endangered," the left are talking about a "No Fly, No Buy" type of bill that makes sense. If you are on the watch list, you aren't allowed inside a plane, why the hell would you be able to get a gun. Omar would not have been able to get his hands on any gun, given he was on the watch list. Maybe those 50 innocent souls would still be alive if we enforced something like the, "No Fly, No Buy" bill. But no, it supposedly infringes the precious 2nd Amendment. The NRA makes me sick.
If you're on the no fly lost then what are you doing walking the streets as a free man? No fly lists remove due process. Hey I have an idea. Lets ban those on the no fly list from buying cars. A moble terrorist is more dangerous than a confined one. Lets ban him from an education. A smart terrorist is more dangerous than a dumb one. Lets freeze his bank account. A terrorist with money is more dangerous than one who doesn't. Lets bar him from owning a home. A terrorist with privacy is more dangerous than one out in the open.
I'm a conservative and for the most part I agree with your assessment. Some are against the no fly no buy idea because of no due process but in that I disagree on the basis that this is a war-----time to start treating it as such. It is true that many on the right are rabidly pro gun. It is also true that many on the left are supportive of a repeal of the 2nd amendment and total ban on all firearms. Both sides are keeping anything constructive from being done. I'd like to see a ban on firearms purchasing until age 25 to reduce gun access to school shooters who are predominantly under 25.
The idea of the no-fly list, not to mention using the same methods to restrict other rights not only violate the second, they also violate the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th amendments and every other legal foundational principle of the United States. For the authoritarian left, it's heresy to cite the constitution. After all, if the government is infallible, why is such a document needed? - - - Updated - - - Totalitarians make me sick.
Using a "terror watch list" with no official criteria, no supervision, and no appeals process is a violation of more than just the 2nd Amendment, it is a violation of the 5th and 14th Amendments as well. Denying someone's fundamental human rights on the basis of unsubstantiated suspicions is unconstitutional and immoral. This is a bad idea and you should feel bad for promoting it.
This is what I would do. Pass the "no fly/no bye" law, and toss in the terrorist watch list people also. Then, add those people who use to be on the list, but aren't for what ever reason(like the Orlando shooter). Then have a "glitch" with the watch list, which puts every person alive inside the USA on the terror watch/no fly list. Then profusely apologize for the SNAFU, and put the list back to only real "terrorist". Then when Joe "Innocent" Citizen goes to by a gun, his name will pop up as once on the Terror Watch List. And he is forbidden to buy the gun. Of course he will argue the Govt. messed up. And he will be told that they can prove he is actually innocent with a long, expensive process to clear him.(like $50,000 to $100,000 in attorney fees) Making it virtually impossible for people to be able to "legally" purchase firearms again. This won't violate the 2nd Amd. because the law that says, only those on or once on terror watch list can't buy guns. Just like convicted felons can't buy them. Not forbid you to bear arms. That will be dealt with at a later date.
And that's why everyone with a half a brain is opposed to this bull(*)(*)(*)(*) law. Your proposal is still unconstitutional. It's just that instead of only violating the 2nd Amendment, you're expanding it to the 5th and the 14th and undermining the very concept of Constitutional rights. I hope your stupid crusade to ban guns is worth the loss of any claim of honesty or human decency you ever had. You're despicable.
Sorry no it is you who are Using guns and the 2nd amendment as a scapegoat rather than actually dealing with criminals and mad men.
